Digest of rec.models.scale
The AM McLaren Thread
January 1999
This digest presents the marathon discussion
dealing with the Accurate Miniatures McLaren M8B.
These messages are unedited and retain the
original headers for identification purposes. All messages are copyright
the original author and are not presented for commercial use.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 31 Dec 1998 14:16:35 GMT
On Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:02:37 GMT, Frank DeMaio <imsafan@home.com>
wrote:
>Wow!!!!!! I got two of the three kits and they're wonderful. Sure wish
>the Japanese now can get their act together and produce something like
>these. The detail in these are awesome. Very good motor detail and
>excellent interior detail. If you haven't got one yet get one!!!
>now i heard that it's only available up here in Canada for now.
>
>
> Frank
These kits no where equal to Tamiya or Fugimi in detail quality. Most of the
casting are crude or inaccurate for the cars that they are to represent. But,
hey, nobody else is making these things, and if the MaClaren was produced by
one of the resin casters, you would be paying a lot more and getting less.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:34:34 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
Frank DeMaio <imsafan@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Wow!!!!!! I got two of the three kits and they're wonderful. Sure wish
> >the Japanese now can get their act together and produce something like
> >these. The detail in these are awesome. Very good motor detail and
> >excellent interior detail. If you haven't got one yet get one!!!
> >now i heard that it's only available up here in Canada for now.
> These kits no where equal to Tamiya or Fugimi in detail quality. Most of the
> casting are crude or inaccurate for the cars that they are to represent. But,
> hey, nobody else is making these things, and if the MaClaren was produced by
> one of the resin casters, you would be paying a lot more and getting less.
Its always amusing to hear such different opinions about the same
subject.
Although every Tamiya kit I've bought has been very good,
no 1/20 or 1/24 scale kit I have even attempt anywhere the detail AM
has attempted. My Fujimi Porsche 356C kit is the most awesome kit I've
built, but the 911 RS was considerably less satisfying. I have a model
magazine review on the 911 enthusiast series kits that was pretty
negative. I'd certainly would buy another Fujimi 356 but not another 911.
Then there was the Fujimi F14 Tomcat. I finally threw it in the trash
a few days ago. A seemingly never ending burden has been lifted from my
soul...
I'm still waiting for my McLaren kit. I've heard from a guy who has
completed it and I have the Scale Auto Modeler story on it. I'm sure
I will have no regrets.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: d3eubanks@aol.com (D3Eubanks)
Date: 1 Jan 1999 10:23:06 GMT
>These kits no where equal to Tamiya or Fugimi in detail quality. Most of the
>casting are crude or inaccurate for the cars that they are to represent.
>But,
>hey, nobody else is making these things, and if the MaClaren was produced by
>one of the resin casters, you would be paying a lot more and getting less.
>
>Keith
So, Keith ...
You've actually examined one of these kits? I spent most of this evening
looking them over with the aid of some references I have. I'm having some
trouble identifying the crudeness and inaccuracies in the AM kits. Care to get
a bit more specific with what you see as "crude and inaccurate?"
So much time and so little to do .....
Dean
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: "Shaun Crist" <cristd@nospamwf.quik.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 18:08:45 GMT
Keith,
Have you seen the Tamiya 1/18th McLaren kit? Talk about crude and
inaccurate. I'm sure if they produced a new kit it would be much better,
but until they do AM is the source. I'm been very satisfied with their
automotive subjects and hope the continue to produce more.
Shaun Crist
>
> These kits no where equal to Tamiya or Fugimi in detail quality. Most of
the
> casting are crude or inaccurate for the cars that they are to represent.
But,
> hey, nobody else is making these things, and if the MaClaren was produced
by
> one of the resin casters, you would be paying a lot more and getting
less.
>
> Keith
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: cptmatt@aol.com (CptMatt)
Date: 1 Jan 1999 23:25:47 GMT
I agree with Dean, I built the AM Gran Sport model. I found it to be the equal
or better of any mass production company. Everything was crisp, detailed and
wonderfully sans any flash. Part fit easily and accurately. The accuracy to the
car they are replicating is wonderful.
As kit makers go, I give them a solid A+.
Rob Mc.
--------------------------------------------
>>These kits no where equal to Tamiya or Fugimi in detail quality. Most of
>the
>>casting are crude or inaccurate for the cars that they are to represent.
>>But,
>>hey, nobody else is making these things, and if the MaClaren was produced by
>>one of the resin casters, you would be paying a lot more and getting less.
>>
>>Keith
>
>So, Keith ...
>
>You've actually examined one of these kits? I spent most of this evening
>looking them over with the aid of some references I have. I'm having some
>trouble identifying the crudeness and inaccuracies in the AM kits. Care to
>get
>a bit more specific with what you see as "crude and inaccurate?"
>So much time and so little to do .....
>
>Dean
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 1 Jan 1999 23:52:04 GMT
>So, Keith ...
>
>You've actually examined one of these kits? I spent most of this evening
>looking them over with the aid of some references I have. I'm having some
>trouble identifying the crudeness and inaccuracies in the AM kits. Care to
>get
>a bit more specific with what you see as "crude and inaccurate?"
>So much time and so little to do .....
>
>Dean
>
You need to check out the version of the car you are modeling For instance,
the team cars for '69 use a different shape of windshield, the intake do not
get siamesed at the top, the front wheels are completely wrong, the shape of
the engine block at the belhousing is wrong, the heads are an abortion. the
tire tread is wrong, the engraving is below the Granf Sport kit, need I go
further.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 1 Jan 1999 23:58:37 GMT
>I agree with Dean, I built the AM Gran Sport model. I found it to be the
>equal
>or better of any mass production company. Everything was crisp, detailed and
>wonderfully sans any flash. Part fit easily and accurately. The accuracy to
>the
>car they are replicating is wonderful.
>As kit makers go, I give them a solid A+.
>
>Rob Mc.
I agree that the Grand Sport was a good kit, the detail was crisp, and most
everything was right, except for the distributor mount, the wheel shape, poor
tread on the tires, and the front stabilizer bar which mounted in thin air.
After building three GS kit and now the McLaren it appears to me that AM used a
different die shop to contract the work out to.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 2 Jan 1999 00:06:31 GMT
Keith,
Have you seen the Tamiya 1/18th McLaren kit? Talk about crude and
inaccurate. I'm sure if they produced a new kit it would be much better,
but until they do AM is the source. I'm been very satisfied with their
automotive subjects and hope the continue to produce more.
Shaun Crist
I agree the 1/18 Tamiya's were crude, that is why I sold mine. But,
comparing the AM kit to Tamiya Porsche 956, Jaguar XJR-9LM, plus others in the
LeMans racing series, there is no comparison . The AM guys seem to build good
airplanes but apparently do not have much experience with automobiles..
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 01:59:29 GMT
Keith,
You do, of course, have photograpic evidence of these claims that you
are willing to share with us? If not, your statements will fall on
deaf ears.
Norm Cabana
On 1 Jan 1999 23:52:04 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>You need to check out the version of the car you are modeling For instance,
>the team cars for '69 use a different shape of windshield, the intake do not
>get siamesed at the top, the front wheels are completely wrong, the shape of
>the engine block at the belhousing is wrong, the heads are an abortion. the
>tire tread is wrong, the engraving is below the Granf Sport kit, need I go
>further.
>
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: d3eubanks@aol.com (D3Eubanks)
Date: 2 Jan 1999 04:34:49 GMT
>You need to check out the version of the car you are modeling
Yep! Did that. and got a couple of shots of the Denny Hulme car right here to
make sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing.
>For instance,
>the team cars for '69 use a different shape
>of windshield,
Yep ... the AM kit reflects this difference ... at least the one I opened does.
>the intake do not get siamesed at the top,
can't comment ... seen 'em both ways, could be they were different race to
race? Maybe AM's research was done on a restored car? Who knows ... it's an
easy enuff fix.
> the front wheels are completely wrong,
The kit wheels seem to match the wheels in the photos I'm starin' at.
> the shape of the engine block at the
> belhousing is wrong,
dunno ... don't get much chance to examine Can Am big blocks. I know they were
not stock blocks.
> the heads are an abortion.
I think they'll be adequate, Keith. There isn't much to see on a cylinder head
once they're installed and covered with bodywork.
> the tire tread is wrong,
could well be. Only picture I can find of a tire on a M8B is showin' me a
slick.
> the engraving is below the Granf Sport kit,
VERY subjective point. It's your opinion; I don't agree.
> need I go further.
Only if you want to ... you ain't convinced me that you're even looking at the
same kit.
>
>Keith
So much time and so little to do .....
Dean
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:40:50 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> Keith,
>
> Have you seen the Tamiya 1/18th McLaren kit? Talk about crude and
> inaccurate. I'm sure if they produced a new kit it would be much better,
> but until they do AM is the source. I'm been very satisfied with their
> automotive subjects and hope the continue to produce more.
The was one other B. MPC did it in 1/20 before they did the D.
> I agree the 1/18 Tamiya's were crude, that is why I sold mine. But,
> comparing the AM kit to Tamiya Porsche 956, Jaguar XJR-9LM, plus others in the
> LeMans racing series, there is no comparison . The AM guys seem to build good
> airplanes but apparently do not have much experience with automobiles..
I've built dozens of Tamiya cars and have been underwhelmed many times.
For example, I didn't think much of the visible screw heads on the then
$40 Honda RA 272 or the countless kits with translucent decals that
after hours of work essentially ruined the whole kit. My appetite for
kits far exceeds the meager Tamiya Le Mans series offerings. None of the
flaws that have been mentioned for the AM McLaren will distract me in the
least.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael Stucker)
Date: 2 Jan 1999 17:35:21 GMT
In article <368d7bc3.1321263@news.direcpc.com>, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com
says...
>You do, of course, have photograpic evidence of these claims that you
>are willing to share with us? If not, your statements will fall on
>deaf ears.
>>You need to check out the version of the car you are modeling For instance,
>>the team cars for '69 use a different shape of windshield, the intake do not
>>get siamesed at the top, the front wheels are completely wrong, the shape
>>of
>>the engine block at the belhousing is wrong, the heads are an abortion. the
>>tire tread is wrong, the engraving is below the Granf Sport kit, need I go
>>further.
I've heard that AM checked out an existing M8B made from parts that is vintage
raced. Its possible that this car is not historically correct and they didn't
check against photos from 1969. Its also possible that the model represents a
specific car at a specific race which Keith has no documentation for.
Just throwing out theories as I, unfortunately, haven't seen a kit yet to
really check anything on my own.
--
Michael Stucker | Anadrill Schlumberger, Sugar Land, Texas
stucker$@sugar-land.spc.slb.com | Definately not Anadrill's opinion.
Remove "$" from email address above. | Copyright Michael J. Stucker 1999
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 13:36:23 -0500
stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael Stucker) wrote:
> I've heard that AM checked out an existing M8B made from parts that is
vintage
> raced. Its possible that this car is not historically correct and they
didn't
> check against photos from 1969. Its also possible that the model
represents a
> specific car at a specific race which Keith has no documentation for.
>
> Just throwing out theories as I, unfortunately, haven't seen a kit yet to
> really check anything on my own.
Considering that AM is in the business of highly detailed historic
aircraft I doubt they used the one as their only source.
They looked at a M8B built from parts, but that doesn't mean they didn't
also check out one or both of the surviving but not intact examples,
or that the restored car wasn't itself exhaustivly researched, documented
and replicated when it was assembled, as is the trend in the restoration
business. The car in question was assembled with authentic McLaren bits
by a former Can Am mechanic who is in the vintage race car restoration
business. Plus there were customer versions some of which are still in
original configuration and one or two owned by their original owners.
The specific differences between the works and customer cars were well
known long ago leaving just the differences to be verified and there was
plenty of sources for doing so available.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 3 Jan 1999 01:02:16 GMT
>Keith,
>
>You do, of course, have photograpic evidence of these claims that you
>are willing to share with us? If not, your statements will fall on
>deaf ears.
>
>Norm Cabana
Check out the book "CAN-AM" by Pete Lyons. It has many photos of the M8B team
cars.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 3 Jan 1999 01:24:52 GMT
>'ve built dozens of Tamiya cars and have been underwhelmed many times.
>For example, I didn't think much of the visible screw heads on the then
>$40 Honda RA 272 or the countless kits with translucent decals that
>after hours of work essentially ruined the whole kit. My appetite for
>kits far exceeds the meager Tamiya Le Mans series offerings. None of the
>flaws that have been mentioned for the AM McLaren will distract me in the
>least.
>
>Tom
Tom,
If you paid $40 for the RA272 you were taken I paid $16 for mine. But, I only
bought it for the tires. I looked at mine and discovered why you were
underwhelmed by the visible screw heads, rhese are supposed to be rivets. You
bring another complaint of the AM kit to mind. Check out the tranaxel. The
bolt heads scale to about 1" and the tool designer goofed and put gear housing
on the left side of the box instead of being in the the right side where it
should be.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 21:02:16 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
I wrote:
> >'ve built dozens of Tamiya cars and have been underwhelmed many times.
> >For example, I didn't think much of the visible screw heads on the then
> >$40 Honda RA 272 or the countless kits with translucent decals that
> >after hours of work essentially ruined the whole kit. My appetite for
> >kits far exceeds the meager Tamiya Le Mans series offerings. None of the
> >flaws that have been mentioned for the AM McLaren will distract me in the
> >least.
> Tom,
> If you paid $40 for the RA272 you were taken I paid $16 for mine. But, I only
> bought it for the tires. I looked at mine and discovered why you were
> underwhelmed by the visible screw heads, rhese are supposed to be rivets. You
> bring another complaint of the AM kit to mind. Check out the tranaxel. The
> bolt heads scale to about 1" and the tool designer goofed and put gear housing
> on the left side of the box instead of being in the the right side where it
> should be.
I didn't pay $40 for mine but that was the US suggested retial price when it
came out. After the US price drop I think they now retail for $25, and of
course
some shops discount and/or buy them for less through Japan, bypassing Tamiya
USA and passing the savings on.
That's one mother of a rivet! Scales up to about 1 1/4 inches wide.
None of my reference sources show it. Every reviewer and modeler
I know who built it mentioned it. Mini Exotics even sold replacements
without the hole.
Dunno about the transaxle bolts. How big should they be? I don't have
a Can Am McLaren handy and my M8B photos haven't been returned yet.
1" nuts don't seem to be unreasonable if you are talking about
what I think you are..
Nothing you've mentioned will be visible when I assemble mine. It still
looks like a great deal to me.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 04:43:13 GMT
Keith,
I have the book and have been going through it with magnifying lenses
on trying to ascertain the detail flaws you indicate. There is ONE
picture of Lothar M's car and nothing of the configuration of the car
can be definitively determined. There is ONE color picture of Oscar
Kovaleski's car driven by Tony A that is blurry and provides virtually
no detail clues. I have not been able to find any pictures in the
book showing any McLarens of any year with the siamesed intake
trumpets. However, on Tom Hiett's web site there are several pictures
of an M8B vintage racer that DOES have the siamesed trumpets. Error
on the part of AM? Who knows? I may just turn some aluminum tubing
to make the parts I want. I do know that some of their colors are
wrong but what the heck, I can solve that problem quick enough.
Now, what is wrong with the wheels? You say they are wrong, but what
is wrong. You say the tires are wrong, but what is wrong? Granted
they look like rain tires, but these cars DID run in the rain.
If you are going to tell us that something is wrong, tell us in
detail.
Norm Cabana
On 3 Jan 1999 01:02:16 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>>Keith,
>>
>>You do, of course, have photograpic evidence of these claims that you
>>are willing to share with us? If not, your statements will fall on
>>deaf ears.
>>
>>Norm Cabana
>
>Check out the book "CAN-AM" by Pete Lyons. It has many photos of the M8B team
>cars.
>
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 00:01:39 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Keith,
>
> I have the book and have been going through it with magnifying lenses
> on trying to ascertain the detail flaws you indicate. There is ONE
> picture of Lothar M's car and nothing of the configuration of the car
> can be definitively determined. There is ONE color picture of Oscar
> Kovaleski's car driven by Tony A that is blurry and provides virtually
> no detail clues. I have not been able to find any pictures in the
> book showing any McLarens of any year with the siamesed intake
> trumpets. However, on Tom Hiett's web site there are several pictures
> of an M8B vintage racer that DOES have the siamesed trumpets. Error
> on the part of AM? Who knows? I may just turn some aluminum tubing
> to make the parts I want. I do know that some of their colors are
> wrong but what the heck, I can solve that problem quick enough.
>
> Now, what is wrong with the wheels? You say they are wrong, but what
> is wrong. You say the tires are wrong, but what is wrong? Granted
> they look like rain tires, but these cars DID run in the rain.
>
> If you are going to tell us that something is wrong, tell us in
> detail.
There were three M8Bs, according to Paul Hunter, Bruce McLaren's nephew.
Picking out all their differences over their lives as racecars could take
a lot of time.
Denny's M8B-1 became the M8D development car and was dismantled at
the end of that season. I'm assuming this is the one in which his
fatal accident happened.
Bruce's car M8B-2 was sold to Oscar Kovelski. It is the burned car
but is being restored.
The third M8B Team Car was the updated M8A-2 which had been driven
by Denny in 1968. It became the "B" development car then the
team spare for 1969. This car was sold to Lothar Motschenbacher.
This car is now in the hands of The Bruce McLaren Trust in NZ and is
being fully restored.
So.... Looks like the third car had quite a life, as a A, a B and
as a privateer car. Chaparrals have similar interesting reincarnations.
Trying to find out which one Gurney drove (I assume the second one)
and where the first one is located.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 05:28:51 GMT
Michael,
I've heard the same info as you and probably from the same source. I
have all three kits (Yesssss!!!) and the 69 kit is the factory McLaren
M8B. Lothar M's car is modeled during the 1970 racing year and would
be the 1969 factory cars that were sold to independents. Oscar
Kovaleski's car is for the 1971 racing season. If there is anything
that immediately appears to be wrong, it is with Oscar K's car. On
the box top it shows the car with the staggered intake trumpets and in
the kit it has the same trumpets as the other kits. Minor problem IF
you can find evidence that this particular car had staggered trumpets.
I think I know what Keith is complaining about with regards to the
front wheels. From all photographic evidence I've seen so far, the
front wheels had much more of a dished or offset appearance than is
shown with the kit. This can be handled with a little modeling
ingenuity I'm sure. His complaint with regards to the engine and bell
housing etc. I'll have to check out as I build the kits.
There is one other glaring error with regards to the kits and that is
in regards to the colors of several items. The transaxles would
certainly be dark aluminum as indicated in the instructions, but the
engines would have been normal aluminum and the valve covers would
have been either dark aluminum or magnesium. The instructions call
for these items to be painted semi-gloss black, which is wrong.
You are absolutely correct when you say these cars might have been
modeled to represent a specific car at a specific race. I just don't
know which one it would be. These were working race cars and as such,
changed from race to race. Different things were tried and maybe
adopted or rejected. I know that there were races where one car had
a 430 ci engine and the other might have a 465 ci or larger engine.
Very, very difficult to determine this almost 30 years after the fact.
I do have a complaint about these kits from AM. They did a RM in that
the plastic is the same for all three, but the decals are different
and the paint schemes have been documented. It's a great business
move, but from the modelers point of view, it leaves something to be
desired. From my point of view, I would rather have seen the 69 M8B
factory cars be done completely and simple modification packs be
produced to change the originals into the other cars.
Thanks for your reply.
Norm Cabana
On 2 Jan 1999 17:35:21 GMT, stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael
Stucker) wrote:
>I've heard that AM checked out an existing M8B made from parts that is vintage
>raced. Its possible that this car is not historically correct and they didn't
>check against photos from 1969. Its also possible that the model represents a
>specific car at a specific race which Keith has no documentation for.
>
>Just throwing out theories as I, unfortunately, haven't seen a kit yet to
>really check anything on my own.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 09:48:55 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I've heard the same info as you and probably from the same source. I
> have all three kits (Yesssss!!!) and the 69 kit is the factory McLaren
> M8B. Lothar M's car is modeled during the 1970 racing year and would
> be the 1969 factory cars that were sold to independents. Oscar
> Kovaleski's car is for the 1971 racing season. If there is anything
> that immediately appears to be wrong, it is with Oscar K's car. On
> the box top it shows the car with the staggered intake trumpets and in
> the kit it has the same trumpets as the other kits. Minor problem IF
> you can find evidence that this particular car had staggered trumpets.
From Paul Hunter, Bruce McLaren's nephew:
Bruce's car M8B-2 was sold to Oscar Kovelski, this car was subsequently on
sold and suffered fire damaged in an accident. This car is still in storage
with the owners and the Trust is assisting with the restoration.
Denny's M8B-1 became the M8D development car and was dismantled at the end
of that season. I'm guess in this is the one from the fatal accident.
Lothar Motschenbacher's car was the revised M8A-2 car driven by Denny
in 1968 before becoming the B development car, then the team spare
for 1969, then sold to Motschenbacher. This car is now in the hands of The
Bruce McLaren Trust in NZ and is being fully restored.
> There is one other glaring error with regards to the kits and that is
> in regards to the colors of several items. The transaxles would
> certainly be dark aluminum as indicated in the instructions, but the
> engines would have been normal aluminum and the valve covers would
> have been either dark aluminum or magnesium. The instructions call
> for these items to be painted semi-gloss black, which is wrong.
I'm pretty sure most of the McLarens I've seen as well as most of the
vintage photos I've seen have semi gloss black engines and transaxles.
I'll look.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael Stucker)
Date: 3 Jan 1999 15:55:28 GMT
In article <76llcq$cfu$5@ohnasn01.houston.omnes.net>,
stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com says...
OK, I finally found two of the McLarens at Texas Model trends in Houston.
Bought a Team McLaren model but not the AutoWorld version. Kit looks, well,
detailed . :-) No photoetch but there are soft vinyl parts for hoses and
wires.
The only "error" that I found is that I think the windshield is not correct. I
don't have good pictures of all the Team cars at every race, but I think the
passenger side of the windshield should be flatter and then ramp up to driver
side.
The only hinge included for the doors is a"piano hinge", which I assume is
basically a piece of tape from what I can see in the packages. Don't care for
that. Also, the instructions imply that if you put all the vinyl parts on the
model, the body panels will not close.
--
Michael Stucker | Anadrill Schlumberger, Sugar Land, Texas
stucker$@sugar-land.spc.slb.com | Definately not Anadrill's opinion.
Remove "$" from email address above. | Copyright Michael J. Stucker 1999
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: PSC <pchalmer@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 10:14:14 -0800
Guys;
How about enumerating the "fixes" which are needed to improve the kit(s)
after you've gotten into building them ? How about a build review on one
of the webzines ?
How about addressing your questions about specific kit configuration to
the AM webpage ?
Not being a "car guy" and knowing very little about McLarens but
somewhat more about the folks at AM and Bill Bosworth, I would say:
1. All kits have compromises for economic and technical (limits of
injection-molding) reasons.
2. No kits are perfect - there are always errors of omission /
commission / scale in such areas as rivet size.
3. The AM car kits are very much labors of love on BB's part - and the
research was pretty thorough - and went beyond "published" sources, to
include contact with the current McLaren organization and some of the
folks originally involved.
4. A good modeller can improve on even the best of kits.
Finally, AM welcomes constructive criticism - they would like to know
what you want in future car kits - obviously, the "classic" racers of
the sports / can-am era are favorites. Talk to them !
http://www.accurateminiatures.com/
Pete Chalmers
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 23:39:43 GMT
On Sun, 03 Jan 1999 09:48:55 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
Tom,
Well if they are painted semi-gloss black, it doesn't show it in the
photos I've seen in Lyons book.
The M8B used a Hewland LG500 transaxle that was made of magnesium.
Magnesium castings get a rather dark color as they age and oxidize.
Referencing Peter Lyons book Can-Am, on page 62 there is an excellent
shot of a mech working on an all aluminum Chevy big-block. I can't be
sure, but it looks like the dry sump housing is also magnesium.
Noting the tone of aluminum in a black and white photo, you can see on
page 76 that the heads and what little of the block you can see are
the same aluminum color and the bell housing and transaxle are much
darker. The problem is in what semi-gloss black looks like in a b&w
photo.
On page 179, there is a very detailed shot of the back end of an M8F
and you can tell that the brace that goes over the back of transaxle,
which mounts the coilovers is a much darker color than the transaxle.
It looks pretty close to the tone/color of the radiators and the
center of the steering wheel, which are in fact black.
This has been a large consumption of time for me. Next time there is
a discussion like this, I will stay out of it and build the dang thing
the way I want too. :-)
Can't wait to get them finished.
Norm
>> There is one other glaring error with regards to the kits and that is
>> in regards to the colors of several items. The transaxles would
>> certainly be dark aluminum as indicated in the instructions, but the
>> engines would have been normal aluminum and the valve covers would
>> have been either dark aluminum or magnesium. The instructions call
>> for these items to be painted semi-gloss black, which is wrong.
>
>I'm pretty sure most of the McLarens I've seen as well as most of the
>vintage photos I've seen have semi gloss black engines and transaxles.
>I'll look.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 4 Jan 1999 01:27:18 GMT
>Dunno about the transaxle bolts. How big should they be? I don't have
>a Can Am McLaren handy and my M8B photos haven't been returned yet.
>1" nuts don't seem to be unreasonable if you are talking about
>what I think you are..
>
>Nothing you've mentioned will be visible when I assemble mine. It still
>looks like a great deal to me.
>
>Tom
>
>--
>Tom Hiett
>Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
>Check out my vintage race pics at:
>http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
>
Tom none of the bolts or nuts on the transaxel are larger 1/2" accross the
flats. Yhe realy unsightly thing is that on the rear cover the the studs and
nuts run through ears that are way oversized. As far as being not visible, why
not build a curbside?
I have give up complaining and have started to correct the problem:
New head castings from revell L-88
Cast new transaxel based on the MPC Eagle
Remold the tires with proper tread
Cast the roll bar and mirrors in pollished pewter
Replace the radius arns with thinwall stainless
Heim joints spark plugs and boots from RB Motiom
New vacuformed windshield.
Good luck with yours
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 4 Jan 1999 01:41:14 GMT
>Keith,
>
>I have the book and have been going through it with magnifying lenses
>on trying to ascertain the detail flaws you indicate. There is ONE
>picture of Lothar M's car and nothing of the configuration of the car
>can be definitively determined. There is ONE color picture of Oscar
>Kovaleski's car driven by Tony A that is blurry and provides virtually
>no detail clues. I have not been able to find any pictures in the
>book showing any McLarens of any year with the siamesed intake
>trumpets. However, on Tom Hiett's web site there are several pictures
>of an M8B vintage racer that DOES have the siamesed trumpets. Error
>on the part of AM? Who knows? I may just turn some aluminum tubing
>to make the parts I want. I do know that some of their colors are
>wrong but what the heck, I can solve that problem quick enough.
>
>Now, what is wrong with the wheels? You say they are wrong, but what
>is wrong. You say the tires are wrong, but what is wrong? Granted
>they look like rain tires, but these cars DID run in the rain.
>
>If you are going to tell us that something is wrong, tell us in
>detail.
>
>Norm Cabana
The fron wheel spokes are crudely thick, My solution will be to recast the
rear wheel to also be used on the front, along with turned aluminum trim rings.
The front tires are a pattern used by Firestone in '66 and '67. The proper
tread should be the type used on MPC's M8A and M8D. The rear tires started out
the '69 season with the same tread as the front but slicks soon cam into use so
either option would work.
The devil is in the details
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 4 Jan 1999 01:47:13 GMT
Norm,
One other paint issue that crops up is the color of the tub. The
instrustruction call for a silver color for the complete tub. However, the
floor of the tub and the sides were made from Magnesium, therefore, they should
be darker than the top and seating area.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 21:35:58 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> Tom none of the bolts or nuts on the transaxel are larger 1/2" accross the
> flats. Yhe realy unsightly thing is that on the rear cover the the studs and
> nuts run through ears that are way oversized. As far as being not visible,
> why not build a curbside?
I expected big manly bolts to handle big manly horsepower!
I'll build it like my others. If I enjoy it and it looks nice, its
a success. I don't get stressed out over this stuff. But thanks for
your comments anyway.
> I have give up complaining and have started to correct the problem:
> New head castings from revell L-88
> Cast new transaxel based on the MPC Eagle
> Remold the tires with proper tread
> Cast the roll bar and mirrors in pollished pewter
> Replace the radius arns with thinwall stainless
> Heim joints spark plugs and boots from RB Motiom
> New vacuformed windshield.
Why not wait until the aftermarket stuff is ready? Cody Grayland
announced a detail set a few months ago and I wouldn't be surprized
if someone like Mini Exotics doesn't cast some nicer bits like they
have done before with other kits.
> Good luck with yours
Thanks.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 04:00:26 GMT
On 4 Jan 1999 01:41:14 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
Keith,
I'll probably do something similar with regards to the front wheels.
I wish we had better photos. In Lyons book there are side shots of
gobs of different cars in the races, but of course the McLarens are
not one of these. There is one good shot of the front wheels on the B
when they were testing at Goodwood. Of course, I can't be sure that
these weren't just hack wheels for the testing. There is a color shot
of a D that shows the front wheels but they look different from the B.
They are clearly magnesium and the spokes don't look machined and the
rim isn't polished. I do think that the hub nut in the model is too
large, but I'll work on that. The tires are simple, chuck them in a
holder and sand the tread off and turn them into slicks.
Happy modeling.
Norm
>The fron wheel spokes are crudely thick, My solution will be to recast the
>rear wheel to also be used on the front, along with turned aluminum trim rings.
> The front tires are a pattern used by Firestone in '66 and '67. The proper
>tread should be the type used on MPC's M8A and M8D. The rear tires started out
>the '69 season with the same tread as the front but slicks soon cam into use so
>either option would work.
>
>The devil is in the details
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 04:07:16 GMT
On 4 Jan 1999 01:27:18 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
Keith,
Being a former aircraft mechanic and being familiar with the type of
hardware that would be used in this kind of application (AN grade),
the nuts will probably be 9/16 to 3/4 depending upon where they are
employed and they would be cadmium plated with cadmium plated washers
Regarding your list, why not just buy the LG500 transaxle from
MiniExotics? Where are you getting your heim joints and plug boots?
Norm
>Tom none of the bolts or nuts on the transaxel are larger 1/2" accross the
>flats. Yhe realy unsightly thing is that on the rear cover the the studs and
>nuts run through ears that are way oversized. As far as being not visible, why
>not build a curbside?
>
>I have give up complaining and have started to correct the problem:
> New head castings from revell L-88
> Cast new transaxel based on the MPC Eagle
> Remold the tires with proper tread
> Cast the roll bar and mirrors in pollished pewter
> Replace the radius arns with thinwall stainless
> Heim joints spark plugs and boots from RB Motiom
> New vacuformed windshield.
>
>Good luck with yours
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: jom@ihug.co.nz (Jo Martin)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 10:30:49 GMT
On Sun, 03 Jan 1999 23:39:43 GMT, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm
Cabana) wrote:
>Well if they are painted semi-gloss black, it doesn't show it in the
>photos I've seen in Lyons book.
>
>The M8B used a Hewland LG500 transaxle that was made of magnesium.
>Magnesium castings get a rather dark color as they age and oxidize.
>
My dim, and distant memory of the bigger Hewland gearboxes was that
they were usually painted crackle finish black - for some reason the
small (Beetle cased, magnesium) Mk8/9 was never painted; but I don't
remember an unpainted box that Hewland cast the case for themselves
(as the other boxes were).
By the way, did you know that LG stands for "Large Gearbox"? Mike
Hewland had a sense of humour when it came to naming them. DG was
"Different Gearbox". I''ll leave FG to your imagination......
Jo
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: d2kos@aol.com (D2Kos)
Date: 4 Jan 1999 18:19:25 GMT
Do you guys realize how nit-picky you must sound to the producers of this kit?
I'm sure they've invested lots of dollars and time to bring these to us, and
all we have to say is "the nuts are a bit too large (even though they are
hidden most of the time), and the tire tread is all wrong".
Be thankful for what you get, or you'll be making the next CanAm car out of a
block of balsa, all by yourself.
Kos
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: d2kos@aol.com (D2Kos)
Date: 4 Jan 1999 18:20:45 GMT
>I'll build it like my others. If I enjoy it and it looks nice, its
>a success. I don't get stressed out over this stuff.
Now here's a man with the right attitude. Model to please yourself, and not
the "other experts".
Kos
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: Rodney Noriel <rbn@corp.cirrus.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:12:20 -0800
All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
My suggestions would be:
Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
Championship F1 Car
Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
we'd like them...lots of detail.
Rodney
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: "Shaun Crist" <cristd@nospamwf.quik.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 01:21:33 GMT
Rodney,
I'd vote for a Lola or Chaparral. I'd also like to see a GTP Chevy
Intrepid. I've got one of the Grand Sports and ordered two of the
McLarens. I just hope they keep it up.
Shaun Crist
Rodney Noriel <rbn@corp.cirrus.com> wrote in article
<36913CC4.7B73@corp.cirrus.com>...
> All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
> has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
> considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
>
> Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
>
> My suggestions would be:
>
> Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
> Championship F1 Car
> Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
>
> Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
> they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
> will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
> and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
> we'd like them...lots of detail.
>
>
> Rodney
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 5 Jan 1999 02:46:24 GMT
>Regarding your list, why not just buy the LG500 transaxle from
>MiniExotics? Where are you getting your heim joints and plug boots?
Norm,
RB Motion makes this stuff, and it great. They are costly, but each piece is
made by hand one at a time. He uses a microscope on his lathe and milling
machine. He makes hex nuts as small as .025" and bolts with a hex of .020
with a stem dia. of .014. He also makes some nice coil over shocks, plus other
things.
RB Motion
P.O Box 47
Bryon, Ohio 43508
(419) 636-0139
Keith
The devil is in the detail
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 05:50:34 GMT
Keith,
What is your reference for this? I'm not doubting you, just want to
see for myself. I haven't read all the text in Lyons book so it may
be there, but I haven't seen anything in the photos that would
indicate this
On 4 Jan 1999 01:47:13 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>Norm,
>
>One other paint issue that crops up is the color of the tub. The
>instrustruction call for a silver color for the complete tub. However, the
>floor of the tub and the sides were made from Magnesium, therefore, they should
>be darker than the top and seating area.
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 05:59:23 GMT
Keith,
You've just hit upon one of my pet peeves with modern modeling. I
guess if I was going for competition level modeling I MIGHT consider
buying this stuff (i.e. nuts and bolts and heim joints etc.) but for a
model that will either be built as a kit review or as a personal sit
on the shelf model, I can't see spending the money for this. Now, if
I had the capabilities of doing this type of work myself, then I would
do it in a heartbeat. This is a personal thing so don't let my
comments disuade you from using these things. I will send a letter to
RB Motion and get a catalog though. Never know when it might come in
handy
Norm
PS, your tag line is quite true!
On 5 Jan 1999 02:46:24 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>>Regarding your list, why not just buy the LG500 transaxle from
>>MiniExotics? Where are you getting your heim joints and plug boots?
>
>Norm,
>
>RB Motion makes this stuff, and it great. They are costly, but each piece is
>made by hand one at a time. He uses a microscope on his lathe and milling
>machine. He makes hex nuts as small as .025" and bolts with a hex of .020
>with a stem dia. of .014. He also makes some nice coil over shocks, plus other
>things.
>
>RB Motion
>P.O Box 47
>Bryon, Ohio 43508
>(419) 636-0139
>
>Keith
>
>The devil is in the detail
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 06:34:45 GMT
Rodney,
I'm sure that AM would love to have your input. Please go to their
web site and tell them what you, as a customer, would be willing to
spend money on. They ARE a business and as such, pay very close
attention to what their paying customers want. I am for any and all
Can-Am cars and LeMans Racers of that period. However, I could get
them to produce just one vehicle, it would absolutely have to be Dan
Gurneys AAR F1 Gurney Weslake that he won the F1 race in. It is an
historically significant car because it is the only American made and
American driven car to win a Formula One event.
Norm Cabana
On Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:12:20 -0800, Rodney Noriel
<rbn@corp.cirrus.com> wrote:
>All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
>has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
>considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
>
>Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
>
>My suggestions would be:
>
>Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
>Championship F1 Car
>Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
>
>Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
>they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
>will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
>and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
>we'd like them...lots of detail.
>
>
>Rodney
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 06:37:07 GMT
Shaun,
Besides the Can-Am cars, I agree with you. I'd like to see the GTP
cars modeled. I would love to see the Fiero GTP and Corvette GTPs.
Matter of fact, I'd like to see someone do the GTO and GTU IMSA
versions of the Fieros from the 1980s.
Let AM know what you want.
Norm Cabana
On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 01:21:33 GMT, "Shaun Crist"
<cristd@nospamwf.quik.com> wrote:
>Rodney,
>
>I'd vote for a Lola or Chaparral. I'd also like to see a GTP Chevy
>Intrepid. I've got one of the Grand Sports and ordered two of the
>McLarens. I just hope they keep it up.
>
>Shaun Crist
>
>Rodney Noriel <rbn@corp.cirrus.com> wrote in article
><36913CC4.7B73@corp.cirrus.com>...
>> All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
>> has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
>> considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
>>
>> Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
>>
>> My suggestions would be:
>>
>> Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
>> Championship F1 Car
>> Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
>>
>> Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
>> they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
>> will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
>> and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
>> we'd like them...lots of detail.
>>
>>
>> Rodney
>>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 07:00:40 GMT
Be thankful for what I get? Thankful??? What is this crap? I'm not
some 10 year old kid that has to listen to this kind of drivel just
because their parents want to feed them a guilty line of s**t! I paid
good hard earned cash for the three AM kits I got. I , and MANY
others, have been waiting months for these things to come out. If AM
had given me these things, then yes, I would indeed accept the gift
without adverse comment.
HOWEVER, AM is asking a fairly high price for these things and since I
paid a good $10 more per kit than I did for the GS cars, I expect the
quality to be equal or better. It isn't. These are damn nice kits,
kits with tons of potential, but they are damn nice kits with flaws.
The discussions here about these flaws are good for AM. Yes, we are
picking nits (nits are tasty little buggers if they're cooked right!)
but AM is getting feedback from experienced modelers as well. If AM
fails to heed the comments made here and elsewhere, then they will
have no one else to blame when this portion of their business suffers.
Tamiya didn't get to where it is because it produced crap and told
it's customers to be "thankful" I've got a feeling Accurate
Minatures won't fall into the same trap as the other American model
companies did.
As one old time modeler friend once said to me, "Just because it won't
be seen, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done right. I'll know it's
there and that's what counts!" Wise man, my friend!
Norm Cabana
On 4 Jan 1999 18:19:25 GMT, d2kos@aol.com (D2Kos) wrote:
>Do you guys realize how nit-picky you must sound to the producers of this kit?
>I'm sure they've invested lots of dollars and time to bring these to us, and
>all we have to say is "the nuts are a bit too large (even though they are
>hidden most of the time), and the tire tread is all wrong".
>
>Be thankful for what you get, or you'll be making the next CanAm car out of a
>block of balsa, all by yourself.
>
>Kos
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: Adrian Bruce <adrian@rinc.or.jp>
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:51:02 +0900
Norm Cabana wrote:
>
> Rodney,
>
> I am for any and all Can-Am cars and LeMans Racers of that period.
I second that. Have the AM kit, and I'd love the Can-Am UOP shadows,
917/10 ( I do have a 1/24 resin of it though )and a 917/30 to go with
a le mans 1/24 scale 917LM (the year after the pop porsche, which you
can get in resin ) and a 917/20 pink pig from Le Mans. ( I do have
2 x 1/43 can-am shadows, M-20 and the 917LM and 917/20 , but 1/43 is
too small, and tough on the eyes! )
Something magical about 1969 to 1973 Can-Am and Le Mans for some
reason...
probably just the shear power of these cars..
--
Adrian Bruce adrian@rinc.or.jp
SF2D&I http://www.rinc.or.jp/~adrian/
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:03:36 -0500
adrian@rinc.or.jp wrote:
> I second that. Have the AM kit, and I'd love the Can-Am UOP shadows,
> 917/10 ( I do have a 1/24 resin of it though )and a 917/30 to go with
The 1/24 scale resin Fisher kit of the 917/30 should be out now.
I saw it in August.
> a le mans 1/24 scale 917LM (the year after the pop porsche, which you
> can get in resin ) and a 917/20 pink pig from Le Mans.
'70 and '71 917 Langhecks of all variations are available by Fisher.
A 917/20 pink pig is promised for 1999. Just finishing up a '71 Martini
917 LH.
http://www.fishermodels.com/
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 6 Jan 1999 00:18:08 GMT
>Keith,
>
>What is your reference for this? I'm not doubting you, just want to
>see for myself. I haven't read all the text in Lyons book so it may
>be there, but I haven't seen anything in the photos that would
>indicate this
>On 4 Jan 1999 01:47:13 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>
>>Norm,
>>
>>One other paint issue that crops up is the color of the tub. The
>>instrustruction call for a silver color for the complete tub. However, the
>>floor of the tub and the sides were made from Magnesium, therefore, they
>should
>>be darker than the top and seating area.
>>Keith
>
Norm, found this information in an old mag called cars in profile. I was
published in England. I forgot to point out that this may only apply to the
team cars. You can tell the difference on the tub area that shows behind the
front wheel on some of the shots in the Lyons book.
Keith.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 6 Jan 1999 00:26:13 GMT
>haun,
>
>Besides the Can-Am cars, I agree with you. I'd like to see the GTP
>cars modeled. I would love to see the Fiero GTP and Corvette GTPs.
>Matter of fact, I'd like to see someone do the GTO and GTU IMSA
>versions of the Fieros from the 1980s.
>
>Let AM know what you want.
>
>Norm Cabana
>
>On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 01:21:33 GMT, "Shaun Crist"
><cristd@nospamwf.quik.com> wrote:
>
>>Rodney,
>>
>>I'd vote for a Lola or Chaparral. I'd also like to see a GTP Chevy
>>Intrepid. I've got one of the Grand Sports and ordered two of the
>>McLarens. I just hope they keep it up.
>>
>>Shaun Crist
>>
>>Rodney Noriel <rbn@corp.cirrus.com> wrote in article
>><36913CC4.7B73@corp.cirrus.com>...
>>> All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
>>> has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
>>> considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
>>>
>>> Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
>>>
>>> My suggestions would be:
>>>
>>> Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
>>> Championship F1 Car
>>> Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
>>>
>>> Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
>>> they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
>>> will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
>>> and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
>>> we'd like them...lots of detail.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rodney
>>>
Besides these there are too cars that were so far ahead of there time that the
designs they spawned lasted decades. These are the original Lola coupe that
John Mecom ran with the Grand Sport Corvettes in Nassau, and the Lola T600
Chevy coupe that eliminated the Porches in IMSA, and never finished a race in a
position less than second place. I find it amazing that these have never been
sone in 1/24 or 1/25.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:24:18 GMT
Jo,
Thanks for this info. I still say they don't look black, but if you
are sure.....
What I thought strange about the Hewland boxes was rating the
gearboxes by the horsepower they were supposed to be able to handle,
LG500 = 500 HP LG600 = 600 HP. Did they ever produce an LG1000?
Do you live in New Zealand?
Norm
On Mon, 04 Jan 1999 10:30:49 GMT, jom@ihug.co.nz (Jo Martin) wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Jan 1999 23:39:43 GMT, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm
>Cabana) wrote:
>
>
>>Well if they are painted semi-gloss black, it doesn't show it in the
>>photos I've seen in Lyons book.
>>
>>The M8B used a Hewland LG500 transaxle that was made of magnesium.
>>Magnesium castings get a rather dark color as they age and oxidize.
>>
>My dim, and distant memory of the bigger Hewland gearboxes was that
>they were usually painted crackle finish black - for some reason the
>small (Beetle cased, magnesium) Mk8/9 was never painted; but I don't
>remember an unpainted box that Hewland cast the case for themselves
>(as the other boxes were).
> By the way, did you know that LG stands for "Large Gearbox"? Mike
>Hewland had a sense of humour when it came to naming them. DG was
>"Different Gearbox". I''ll leave FG to your imagination......
>
>
>Jo
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:28:13 GMT
Pete,
You bring up some good points. I have sent messages to AM with my
comments BEFORE the kits came out. I will send them comments after I
do my first buildup
Norm
On Sun, 03 Jan 1999 10:14:14 -0800, PSC <pchalmer@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>Guys;
>
>How about enumerating the "fixes" which are needed to improve the kit(s)
>after you've gotten into building them ? How about a build review on one
>of the webzines ?
>
>How about addressing your questions about specific kit configuration to
>the AM webpage ?
>
>Not being a "car guy" and knowing very little about McLarens but
>somewhat more about the folks at AM and Bill Bosworth, I would say:
>
>1. All kits have compromises for economic and technical (limits of
>injection-molding) reasons.
>
>2. No kits are perfect - there are always errors of omission /
>commission / scale in such areas as rivet size.
>
>3. The AM car kits are very much labors of love on BB's part - and the
>research was pretty thorough - and went beyond "published" sources, to
>include contact with the current McLaren organization and some of the
>folks originally involved.
>
>4. A good modeller can improve on even the best of kits.
>
>Finally, AM welcomes constructive criticism - they would like to know
>what you want in future car kits - obviously, the "classic" racers of
>the sports / can-am era are favorites. Talk to them !
>
>http://www.accurateminiatures.com/
>
>Pete Chalmers
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:41:42 GMT
Keith,
Eric Broadley's Lola GT I know about and agree with you on. There is
one still in running condition and there are a few books that cover
it. I'd love to have a Lola GT, Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b), Ford
GT40 Mk1 early, Ford GT40 Mk1 late, Ford GT40 MkII early, Ford GT 40
Mk2 late, Ford J car, Ford GT40 Mk IV, The John Wyer variants of the
GT40s, Chaparral 2D early, Chaparral 2D late, Chaparral 2F, Ferrari
330 P4 both coupe and roadster. Just those kits alone in the same
scale and same detail level would make me a very happy man. Now throw
in all the USRRC/Can-Am cars from about 1964 on and I'd be in heaven.
Finally add all the 1960s F-1 cars and I could die a happy man.
Broke, but happy!!
Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
Happy modeling!
Norm
On 6 Jan 1999 00:26:13 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>Besides these there are two cars that were so far ahead of there time that the
>designs they spawned lasted decades. These are the original Lola coupe that
>John Mecom ran with the Grand Sport Corvettes in Nassau, and the Lola T600
>Chevy coupe that eliminated the Porches in IMSA, and never finished a race in a
>position less than second place. I find it amazing that these have never been
>sone in 1/24 or 1/25.
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:50:41 GMT
Adrian,
The Shadows! What a set of cars. They were the most push the limit,
in your face machines that I've ever seen! The first Shadows weren't
much more than Go-Karts with a giant wing and an aluminum big block
for push. I honestly think that the guys that drove those things were
some of the bravest men around.
Can't say I feel the same way about Porches though. The Can-Am
versions were awesome, but I just never got interested in them.
Must agree about the scale comments. As I get older, the scale
numbers just HAVE to get smaller. 1/25 is the absolute limit for me
and if we could get some more stuff in 1/18th I'd be happy.
I was up on the Fisher Models web site last night. If you haven't
seen there stuff, you should take a visit. Very nice resin stuff.
Where in Japan are you located?
Norm
On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:51:02 +0900, Adrian Bruce <adrian@rinc.or.jp>
wrote:
>Norm Cabana wrote:
>>
>> Rodney,
>>
>> I am for any and all Can-Am cars and LeMans Racers of that period.
>
>I second that. Have the AM kit, and I'd love the Can-Am UOP shadows,
>917/10 ( I do have a 1/24 resin of it though )and a 917/30 to go with
> a le mans 1/24 scale 917LM (the year after the pop porsche, which you
>can get in resin ) and a 917/20 pink pig from Le Mans. ( I do have
>2 x 1/43 can-am shadows, M-20 and the 917LM and 917/20 , but 1/43 is
>too small, and tough on the eyes! )
>
>Something magical about 1969 to 1973 Can-Am and Le Mans for some
>reason...
>probably just the shear power of these cars..
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 7 Jan 1999 02:30:04 GMT
>Keith,
>
>Eric Broadley's Lola GT I know about and agree with you on. There is one
still in running condition and there are a few books that cover
>it. I'd love to have a Lola GT,
Norm,
These are ( or were) made by:
Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b),- Mini Exotics
Ford GT40 Mk1 early, - Chez Cast I believe
Ford GT40 Mk1 late,- Aurora (reissue)
Ford GT40 MkII early, - Fujimi
Ford GT 40 Mk2 late, - Thunder Vally
Ford J car, - Mini Exotics MPC,
Ford GT40 Mk IV, - MPC,
The John Wyer variants of the GT40s, *Mirage) Mini Exotic, K-Models
Chaparral 2D early, Monogram (reissue)
Chaparral 2D late, Modelers
Chaparral 2F, Modelers & Me
Ferrari 330 P4 both coupe ( Fugimi) and roadster. Creative Miniature Associates
> Just those kits alone in the same
>scale and same detail level would make me a very happy man. Now throw
>in all the USRRC/Can-Am cars from about 1964 on and I'd be in heaven.
>Finally add all the 1960s F-1 cars and I could die a happy man.
>Broke, but happy!!
Get happy
>Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
>Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
The only reference I have about the T600 was a Chevy Power book. This car was
the first to use a tunnel underbody in an envelop body.
I could snail mail you a photocopy.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: lito626@aol.com (Lito626)
Date: 7 Jan 1999 02:51:42 GMT
>Norm,
>These are ( or were) made by:
>Chaparral 2F, Modelers & Me
Is the Modeler's or your Chaparral 2F kit still available?
Larry Litoborski
Lito626@aol.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: snapon.bob@erols.com (Bob Buxbaum)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 03:04:30 GMT
On Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:41:42 GMT, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm
Cabana) wrote:
>Keith,
>
>Eric Broadley's Lola GT I know about and agree with you on. There is
>one still in running condition and there are a few books that cover
>it. I'd love to have a Lola GT, Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b), Ford
>GT40 Mk1 early, Ford GT40 Mk1 late, Ford GT40 MkII early, Ford GT 40
>Mk2 late, Ford J car, Ford GT40 Mk IV, The John Wyer variants of the
>GT40s, Chaparral 2D early, Chaparral 2D late, Chaparral 2F, Ferrari
>330 P4 both coupe and roadster. Just those kits alone in the same
>scale and same detail level would make me a very happy man. Now throw
>in all the USRRC/Can-Am cars from about 1964 on and I'd be in heaven.
>Finally add all the 1960s F-1 cars and I could die a happy man.
>Broke, but happy!!
Norm,
If I am not mistaken EVERYTHING on you wish list is out there in
resin, plastic, or both in 1.24 and/or 1/25. Fisher, Fujimi, Tamiya,
IMC, Modelers, Monogram, etc. Cruise Motoi, HLJ, Phoenix, Fisher, AM,
Thunder Valley, Mini-Exotics, to name a few and you will be swimming
in choices. Trust me. Just got my first shipment of three that are
coming and my VISA card is melting!
"Broke, but happy!" Can't wait until that bill crosses my wife's
desk!!!!!
Bob Buxbaum
Chesapeake, Va.
snapon.bob@erols.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:41:02 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett) wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> Well if they are painted semi-gloss black, it doesn't show it in the
> photos I've seen in Lyons book.
>
> The M8B used a Hewland LG500 transaxle that was made of magnesium.
> Magnesium castings get a rather dark color as they age and oxidize.
>
> Referencing Peter Lyons book Can-Am, on page 62 there is an excellent
> shot of a mech working on an all aluminum Chevy big-block. I can't be
> sure, but it looks like the dry sump housing is also magnesium.
> Noting the tone of aluminum in a black and white photo, you can see on
> page 76 that the heads and what little of the block you can see are
> the same aluminum color and the bell housing and transaxle are much
> darker. The problem is in what semi-gloss black looks like in a b&w
> photo.
I checked my old R&Ts and they only show a two engines and those appear
to be unpainted. Pretty sure I've seen black ones too. Still looking.
The instructions *do say it varies and to check sources*. I only have
the works car kit so I don't know what the other instruction manuals say.
> On page 179, there is a very detailed shot of the back end of an M8F
> and you can tell that the brace that goes over the back of transaxle,
> which mounts the coilovers is a much darker color than the transaxle.
> It looks pretty close to the tone/color of the radiators and the
> center of the steering wheel, which are in fact black.
The F was a later customer car wasn't it? It not be relevant to a B or
a earlier works car.
Found one interesting bit. I tremembered Gurney drove a B at least
once, maybe twice, and assumed he was sitting in for one of the
regular drivers. At Michigan he was offered the team McLaren
back up car when he had problems with his. They ran all three and
finished 1-2-3. That was pretty generous of McLaren.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 8 Jan 1999 00:40:52 GMT
>>Norm,
>>These are ( or were) made by:
>
>>Chaparral 2F, Modelers & Me
>
>Is the Modeler's or your Chaparral 2F kit still available?
>Larry Litoborski
>Lito626@aol.com
>
The Modelers Chaparral is still available, I believe. I am working on one with
a chassis, windows, engine etc. The Modelers version is just a hunk of resin,
no windows, interior, chassis etc. Check hoppylink Japan if you want to get a
Modelers 2F at a good price.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: rocktman61@my-dejanews.com
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 07:46:29 GMT
Norm, I think your take on the accuracy issue is very correct. These were
"prototype" race cars. They were built and rebuilt not only between different
races, but sometimes between heats of the same race. Not even two team cars
were identicle. And Bruce most certainly did not sell complete "team" cars to
competitors. He sold lesser customer cars, and year old team chassis'
refitted with customer quality components. The "Bruce and Denny show" did not
dominate by selling their best stuff to the competition. And the moment the
customer got their hands on the car, they began modifying. To make a claim
that these models are not correct for a given year, is absurd. Unless a
modeler could come up with a COMPLETE set of photos for a given race, or
heat, it would be impossible to be completely accurate in the reproduction.
But, hopefully, that is not the goal in building these gems. The goal is to
enjoy yourself....
Tim
...go fast, or go home!
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 13:16:47 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> Tom none of the bolts or nuts on the transaxel are larger 1/2" accross the
> flats. Yhe realy unsightly thing is that on the rear cover the the studs and
> nuts run through ears that are way oversized. As far as being not visible,
> why not build a curbside?
Part of the engine sticks out of the top of the bodywork and some is
visible from the rear so a curbside more odd than some oversized bolt heads.
> I have give up complaining and have started to correct the problem:
> New head castings from revell L-88
> Cast new transaxel based on the MPC Eagle
> Remold the tires with proper tread
> Cast the roll bar and mirrors in pollished pewter
> Replace the radius arns with thinwall stainless
> Heim joints spark plugs and boots from RB Motiom
> New vacuformed windshield.
>
> Good luck with yours
How about building the customer car with the Ford engine? I have some photos...
Jim Hall raced a variation while revising the 2H to suit Surtees's demands.
Seen that one a few times too. It was, of course, white.
Did the customer cars have the magnesium floor and side pieces?
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: svanaken@aol.com (SVanaken)
Date: 8 Jan 1999 19:35:44 GMT
Tim sagely noted:
'These were
"prototype" race cars. They were built and rebuilt not only between different
races, but sometimes between heats of the same race.'
Along the same vein, Jim Hall was asked for one of the 'old' Chapparal 2E's for
a museum. He replied that he didn't have one as it had been continually
modified and eventually became the 2G. This car was subsequently destroyed in
Las Vegas, thus basically ending Jim's driving career.
Only goes to show how fluid prototype racing cars are and how difficult it is
to pin down references and specifications for these beasts.
Cheers,
---- Scott Van Aken IPMS Canada 5729 ----
---- Modeling Madness Webzine ----
---- http://www.geocities.com/~scottvanaken ----
---- Fly by Nite Productions ----
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 23:43:35 -0500
In article <36913CC4.7B73@corp.cirrus.com>, rbn@corp.cirrus.com wrote:
> All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
> has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
> considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
>
> Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
>
> My suggestions would be:
>
> Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
> Championship F1 Car
> Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
>
> Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
> they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
> will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
> and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
> we'd like them...lots of detail.
A Chaparral has been suggested many times for their next release.
Many thought the second car would be a Chaparral. A 2 or a new
2E (even though I have no problem with the IMC/Union 2E) would be
my choice.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:41:08 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
> Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
There is a photo of John Paul Jr. in a Lola T600 on my photo
page article "the Pan Shot".
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:48:13 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> Besides these there are too cars that were so far ahead of there time that the
> designs they spawned lasted decades. These are the original Lola coupe that
> John Mecom ran with the Grand Sport Corvettes in Nassau, and the Lola T600
> Chevy coupe that eliminated the Porches in IMSA, and never finished a
race in a
> position less than second place. I find it amazing that these have never been
> sone in 1/24 or 1/25.
Awesome cars from many respects. A 935K3 was about $250,000 in
1981. A Lola T600 was about $75,000 with overhauls running $5,000,
a fraction of the Porsches. They were phenomenal to watch, with
Brian Redman, Danny Ongais, and John Paul Jr. doing the most memorable
driving. In the rain they threw up enormous rooster tails. There was
a two part story in R&T profiling a race or two with Sam Posey joining
Brian Redman on the Cooke-Woods team.
The hot ticket was a Porsche 935 engine in a T600. On paper it
looked invincible, but it fizzeled when reality hit.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:16:56 -0500
thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett) wrote:
> ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
> > Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
>
> There is a photo of John Paul Jr. in a Lola T600 on my photo
> page article "the Pan Shot".
Then there were the Interscope T600s with the Falconer turbo V6s.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:43:18 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> Norm,
> These are ( or were) made by:
> Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b),- Mini Exotics
> Ford GT40 Mk1 early, - Chez Cast I believe
> Ford GT40 Mk1 late,- Aurora (reissue)
> Ford GT40 MkII early, - Fujimi
> Ford GT 40 Mk2 late, - Thunder Vally
> Ford J car, - Mini Exotics MPC,
I heard Mini Exotics no longer lists it as available but someone
told me they still had some on hand. It takes a MPC MKIV donor.
The Hardcastle and McCormick TV car kit used the same MKIV chassis
and should work too. The MPC MKIV was on the recent AMT Buyer's
Choice ballot so there is s lim chance it will be reissued.
> Ford GT40 Mk IV, - MPC,
IMC/Testors/Union did a MKIV too
> Ferrari 330 P4 both coupe ( Fugimi) and roadster. Creative Miniature
Associates
Heller/Union too, but not as nice.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: Brooks Moses <bmoses@stanford.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:20:55 -0800
D2Kos wrote:
>
> >I'll build it like my others. If I enjoy it and it looks nice, its
> >a success. I don't get stressed out over this stuff.
>
> Now here's a man with the right attitude. Model to please yourself, and not
> the "other experts".
What seems to be missing slightly is noting that Keith is also following
exactly that attitude too. Just that he has _very_ high standards.
Personally, I applaud him for sharing what he notices, so that others
with
similarly high standards can correct the errors as well. And note that
he has never said that "you need to correct these to have a good model,"
only that "you need to correct these to have a 100% accurate model."
- Brooks
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:57:02 GMT
Keith,
Sorry for the delayed reply. I've been a bit tied up with a project..
Your list is fairly accurate. The GT40 Mk1 early is Aurora or IMC. I
have the Aurora kit and it can be made into a decent 1965 Daytona or
Sebring car with a lot of work. I just picked up an IMC GT40 Mk1
(early) and both Revell Mk2 cars. That gives me three 1966 Le Mans
cars, one 1966 Daytona car, and one mis-matched IMC Mk2 (that I got
for $5 and the car came in a baggie with other parts. That will give
me a total of 7 GT 40s.
I'm not ready to put out all that money for the Mini-Exotics Lolas but
they sure look nice. I've been watching e-bay to see if any of the
models I'm looking for come up. I passed on several 330-P4s and was
really going to bid hard for a Chaparral 2A but I have a hard time
paying $96 for an AMT kit of anything!
Oh, well, I'll just keep at it. Thanks for all the great information.
Norm
On 7 Jan 1999 02:30:04 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>>Keith,
>>
>>Eric Broadley's Lola GT I know about and agree with you on. There is one
>still in running condition and there are a few books that cover
>>it. I'd love to have a Lola GT,
>
>Norm,
>These are ( or were) made by:
>Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b),- Mini Exotics
>Ford GT40 Mk1 early, - Chez Cast I believe
>Ford GT40 Mk1 late,- Aurora (reissue)
>Ford GT40 MkII early, - Fujimi
>Ford GT 40 Mk2 late, - Thunder Vally
>Ford J car, - Mini Exotics MPC,
>Ford GT40 Mk IV, - MPC,
>The John Wyer variants of the GT40s, *Mirage) Mini Exotic, K-Models
>Chaparral 2D early, Monogram (reissue)
>Chaparral 2D late, Modelers
>Chaparral 2F, Modelers & Me
>Ferrari 330 P4 both coupe ( Fugimi) and roadster. Creative Miniature Associates
>> Just those kits alone in the same
>>scale and same detail level would make me a very happy man. Now throw
>>in all the USRRC/Can-Am cars from about 1964 on and I'd be in heaven.
>>Finally add all the 1960s F-1 cars and I could die a happy man.
>>Broke, but happy!!
>
>Get happy
>>Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
>
>>Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
>
>The only reference I have about the T600 was a Chevy Power book. This car was
>the first to use a tunnel underbody in an envelop body.
>
>I could snail mail you a photocopy.
>
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:00:08 GMT
Bob,
Thanks to all the great folks here, I have a good chance of being a
very happy man.
Norm
On Thu, 07 Jan 1999 03:04:30 GMT, snapon.bob@erols.com (Bob Buxbaum)
wrote:
>On Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:41:42 GMT, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm
>Cabana) wrote:
>
>>Keith,
>>
>>Eric Broadley's Lola GT I know about and agree with you on. There is
>>one still in running condition and there are a few books that cover
>>it. I'd love to have a Lola GT, Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b), Ford
>>GT40 Mk1 early, Ford GT40 Mk1 late, Ford GT40 MkII early, Ford GT 40
>>Mk2 late, Ford J car, Ford GT40 Mk IV, The John Wyer variants of the
>>GT40s, Chaparral 2D early, Chaparral 2D late, Chaparral 2F, Ferrari
>>330 P4 both coupe and roadster. Just those kits alone in the same
>>scale and same detail level would make me a very happy man. Now throw
>>in all the USRRC/Can-Am cars from about 1964 on and I'd be in heaven.
>>Finally add all the 1960s F-1 cars and I could die a happy man.
>>Broke, but happy!!
>
>
>Norm,
>
>If I am not mistaken EVERYTHING on you wish list is out there in
>resin, plastic, or both in 1.24 and/or 1/25. Fisher, Fujimi, Tamiya,
>IMC, Modelers, Monogram, etc. Cruise Motoi, HLJ, Phoenix, Fisher, AM,
>Thunder Valley, Mini-Exotics, to name a few and you will be swimming
>in choices. Trust me. Just got my first shipment of three that are
>coming and my VISA card is melting!
>
>"Broke, but happy!" Can't wait until that bill crosses my wife's
>desk!!!!!
>Bob Buxbaum
>Chesapeake, Va.
>snapon.bob@erols.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:05:41 GMT
On Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:41:02 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
Tom,
As you are finding out, just like I, accuracy is a difficult thing to
attain with this hobby. The M8F photo I referenced was of a works
McLaren. The engine trans combination was identical as far as I could
determine. Gurney drove a M6 and and M8D. If I read the book
correctly, Gurney was the first driver chosen when Bruce was killed.
He was a very respected and feared driver. Jim Clark said that Dan
Gurney was the only driver that he ever worried about beating him.
Norm
>I checked my old R&Ts and they only show a two engines and those appear
>to be unpainted. Pretty sure I've seen black ones too. Still looking.
>The instructions *do say it varies and to check sources*. I only have
>the works car kit so I don't know what the other instruction manuals say.
>
>> On page 179, there is a very detailed shot of the back end of an M8F
>> and you can tell that the brace that goes over the back of transaxle,
>> which mounts the coilovers is a much darker color than the transaxle.
>> It looks pretty close to the tone/color of the radiators and the
>> center of the steering wheel, which are in fact black.
>
>The F was a later customer car wasn't it? It not be relevant to a B or
>a earlier works car.
>
>Found one interesting bit. I tremembered Gurney drove a B at least
>once, maybe twice, and assumed he was sitting in for one of the
>regular drivers. At Michigan he was offered the team McLaren
>back up car when he had problems with his. They ran all three and
>finished 1-2-3. That was pretty generous of McLaren.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:24:13 -0500
thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett) wrote:
> kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>
> > Norm,
> > These are ( or were) made by:
> > Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b),- Mini Exotics
> > Ford GT40 Mk1 early, - Chez Cast I believe
> > Ford GT40 Mk1 late,- Aurora (reissue)
> > Ford GT40 MkII early, - Fujimi
> > Ford GT 40 Mk2 late, - Thunder Vally
> > Ford J car, - Mini Exotics MPC,
>
> I heard Mini Exotics no longer lists it as available but someone
> told me they still had some on hand. It takes a MPC MKIV donor.
> The Hardcastle and McCormick TV car kit used the same MKIV chassis
> and should work too. The MPC MKIV was on the recent AMT Buyer's
> Choice ballot so there is s lim chance it will be reissued.
I forgot to mention, both IMC and MPC did J cars, each with different bodywork.
Ludvigsen's book shows an amazing number of J car bodywork configurations
considering it never raced. I may be wrong, but I don't think the IMC
was reissued by anyone.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 13 Jan 1999 00:19:36 GMT
>I forgot to mention, both IMC and MPC did J cars, each with different
>bodywork.
>Ludvigsen's book shows an amazing number of J car bodywork configurations
>considering it never raced. I may be wrong, but I don't think the IMC
>was reissued by anyone.
>Tom
Tom you are right the IMC J was never reissued. I sold one of mine and traded
for an MPC and found out why the other guy wanted to part with it. The rear
body shap is far better on the IMC than the MPC. I am building the MPC anyway
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:19:20 GMT
Tim,
Apologies for the late reply. I've been pretty tied up with a project
I'm working on and couldn't spare the time.
Enjoying myself building these is truly what it is all about.
However, our definitions of "enjoyment" just might differ. But, that
is what makes this so great. My only real beef will be with folks who
think others are doing something wrong when they don't do things
exactly the same way they do them. Some folks like to research like
hell and really enjoy it, and others do virtually no research at all
and build the model as suggested by the manufacturer.
As long as they don't start lobbing streams of envectives at each
other, it's fine by me. Speaking of which, I'm looking at a picture
of Jim Halls Chaparral 2H at Laguna Seca. It has the most ridiculous
wing grafted onto the body that I've ever seen. If I tried to build
this the way it is shown in the picture, without showing reference
material, I would expect to get laughed at for building a fantasy toy.
Darn thing looks like it was build out of sheet styrene.
Regards.
Norm
On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 07:46:29 GMT, rocktman61@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>But, hopefully, that is not the goal in building these gems. The goal is to
>enjoy yourself....
>
>Tim
>
>...go fast, or go home!
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:22:41 GMT
Tom,
If AM were to keep it in the same time frame as the McLarens, they
would have to model the 2H and/or 2J. In 1971, Hall pulled out of
Can-Am competition in a dispute with FIA.
I personally would love them to do a 2C with all the louvers.
Hairiest dang car I've ever seen! A 2E/G would be nice as well, but
isn't AM's charter to model the subjects that are unique? The GS
certainly hasn't been over modeled nor have the SBD and Yak-1's (Those
are aircraft, in case you didn't know the designations. considering
how much an AMT 2A just went for on e-bay, I hope like heck the do
that model! By the way, just thought I'd pass on that a brand new,
still in the box, 1960s vintage Chaparral 2E slot car just sold last
week on e-bay for $1,500.00! That is one thousand, five hundred
dollars!
Norm
On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 23:43:35 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>A Chaparral has been suggested many times for their next release.
>Many thought the second car would be a Chaparral. A 2 or a new
>2E (even though I have no problem with the IMC/Union 2E) would be
>my choice.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:22:46 GMT
Tom,
Now I know what cars you mean. Also understand why I didn't recognize
the model of Lola. I was living in Japan when these were being raced
and I was not following racing of any type at the time. Interesting
shape!
Norm
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:41:08 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
>> Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
>
>There is a photo of John Paul Jr. in a Lola T600 on my photo
>page article "the Pan Shot".
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:22:47 GMT
Tom,
As my earlier message in this thread will tell you, I haven't got a
clue about these cars.
Norm
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:16:56 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett) wrote:
>
>> ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>>
>> > Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
>> > Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
>>
>> There is a photo of John Paul Jr. in a Lola T600 on my photo
>> page article "the Pan Shot".
>
>Then there were the Interscope T600s with the Falconer turbo V6s.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:29:36 GMT
Tom,
Another group of cars that should be modeled, although who might be
doing these I don't know, is the Ferrari 333SP, Riley & Scott Fords,
and the Kudzu from WSC and the 8 Liter Panoz GTR-1 from FIA GT. The
one car I hope NEVER gets modeled is the Marcos from FIA GT-2. I
think one of the resin folks is doing the 333SP but I'd love to see it
in detailed plastic.
Norm
On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 23:43:35 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>A Chaparral has been suggested many times for their next release.
>Many thought the second car would be a Chaparral. A 2 or a new
>2E (even though I have no problem with the IMC/Union 2E) would be
>my choice.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:59:53 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> >I forgot to mention, both IMC and MPC did J cars, each with different
> >bodywork.
> >Ludvigsen's book shows an amazing number of J car bodywork configurations
> >considering it never raced. I may be wrong, but I don't think the IMC
> >was reissued by anyone.
>
> >Tom
>
> Tom you are right the IMC J was never reissued. I sold one of mine and traded
> for an MPC and found out why the other guy wanted to part with it. The rear
> body shap is far better on the IMC than the MPC. I am building the MPC anyway
Most the photos are of the Le Mans time trials car but there were several
versions. Get The Fastest Fords by Karl Ludvigsen (I may have a more complete
title on my reference page) from interlibrary loan. There are dozens of
drawings
and photos of the J car. Been a long time but I'm pretty sure both the IMC and
MPC configurations are shown. I have the MPC and a friend has the IMC. I think
one is as accurate and as inaccurate as the other, although they do represent
different versions.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:18:34 GMT
Tom,
Just thought I'd drop you a note to let you know that AM did it pretty
much correct with regards to the windscreens. Prior to 1970 it was
perfectly legal to flatten the windscreen over the passenger seat
area. The most extensive display of this was Chris Amon's Ferrari
where the windscreen on the passenger side was a virtual tonneau cover
made of lexan. In 1970 the rules were changed to mandate that the
windscreen be symmetrical and allow enough room for the passenger to
sit upright. Interesting what you can find out if you look past the
pictures.
Norm
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:59:13 -0500
svanaken@aol.com (SVanaken) wrote:
> Tim sagely noted:
>
> 'These were
> "prototype" race cars. They were built and rebuilt not only between different
> races, but sometimes between heats of the same race.'
>
> Along the same vein, Jim Hall was asked for one of the 'old' Chapparal
2E's for
> a museum. He replied that he didn't have one as it had been continually
> modified and eventually became the 2G. This car was subsequently destroyed in
> Las Vegas, thus basically ending Jim's driving career.
Hall has a 2E sitting in his personal museum which is not open to the
public. Photos of all of his restored cars (2, 2E, 2F, 2H, 2J and indycar) have
appeared in AutoWeek and the Falconer Chaparral book. He says he still has the
wreckage of the G that ended his career but has no plans to restore it. I think
he has only exhibited his restored cars twice- at Monterey Historics during the
Chevy year and this past year at Goodwood Festival of Speed. I'd sure like to
see them!
The historys of the individual chaparral cars is interesting. Thankfully
he built enough of them that he was able to update and backdate enough
chassis to come up with a fairly complete set for his collection. He still
sounds suspicious of questions about them and has in the past denied still
having certain cars that later showed up. He doesn't get the credit he
deserves.
> Only goes to show how fluid prototype racing cars are and how difficult it is
> to pin down references and specifications for these beasts.
Yep. When the university shows their solar racer most people are appaled
at how rough it is. They have to explain that although it is immaculately
constructed of alloys and composite materials, it is often modified
and repaired daily. They are a tool for a specific job and not a show car.
I have long suspected that the vast majority of cars on the vintage
circuit are in far better condition that they ever were when new.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:21:40 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Tom,
>
> As my earlier message in this thread will tell you, I haven't got a
> clue about these cars.
Brian Redman convinced Eric Broadly to build the T600 for the new GTP
class. He drove it ten times in 1981. He scored no poles but
won five times and finished second five times. Pretty straightforward
aluminum monocoque but with huge ground effects tunnels in the back.
His team, Cooke-Woods Racing, commisioned Garretson Enterprises to
install a 935 twin turbo engine in one for LeMans but they arrived to
find an unsorted car that fell far short of what was needed. Garretson
was a former WEC champ and until this incident his shop was a
top preparer of racing Porsches. Bruce Levin later fielded a similar
car but was a non factor. Guy Edwards and perhaps others raced
a Chevy-Lola T600 in europe.
Ted Field (interscope) bought two for himself and Danny Ongais to race.
John Paul Sr. bought one as did Chris Cord (Budweiser sponsorship). My
most vivid racing experience was the first year they opened part of the
Road America back straight to spectators. I stood on the cliff above and
watched Ongais go by for perhaps ten laps with the nose of his T600 tucked
up UNDER the wing of a GRID, inches from the gearbox, flat out at probably
180 mph.
For some reason they were mothballed for a year or so but Paul and Field
brought their's back and both had success with them. By then Field had a
V-6 turbo fitted to one while the other retained the Chevy V8.
I may be wrong, but I think there was a direct connection between the
Lola T600 and the Hendrick Corvette GTP.
The pic I mentioned is on my webpage. URL should be in the sig.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:39:09 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Tom,
>
> If AM were to keep it in the same time frame as the McLarens, they
> would have to model the 2H and/or 2J. In 1971, Hall pulled out of
> Can-Am competition in a dispute with FIA.
I'm not picky. I'll take any from the general era. Any from the
original series would do.
> I personally would love them to do a 2C with all the louvers.
I'd agree. Definitly 'Merican with Chevy V-8 and still memorable
to this day. When I was a kid everyone wanted Chaparral and Cheeta
slot cars.
A Cheeta would be cool, but it only won one race.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:46:45 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Another group of cars that should be modeled, although who might be
> doing these I don't know, is the Ferrari 333SP, Riley & Scott Fords,
> and the Kudzu from WSC and the 8 Liter Panoz GTR-1 from FIA GT. The
> one car I hope NEVER gets modeled is the Marcos from FIA GT-2. I
> think one of the resin folks is doing the 333SP but I'd love to see it
> in detailed plastic.
The R&S is done in 1/24 resin too. Check out www.gpma.org for
a comparison of the 333SP and R&S 1/24 resin kits. And sign
up for the gpma listserve at: http://www.eGroups.com/list/gpma/
if you haven't already. Lots of sporty car model types hanging
out there. Kevin stewart deserves a big thanks for his contribution
of bringing together internet sportscar/GT modelers.
I think a Viper GTS-R would be great. It is a crowd favorite all
over the world yet is american enough and brutal enough to appeal
to the general US market, and is a series and Le Mans class winner.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: jcsdlj@aol.com (JCSDLJ)
Date: 13 Jan 1999 23:13:26 GMT
Hall does not have a 2E restored it is a 2D coupe that he has. The 2E became
the 2G which was the car that he destroyed
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:07:05 -0500
jcsdlj@aol.com (JCSDLJ) wrote:
> Hall does not have a 2E restored it is a 2D coupe that he has. The 2E became
> the 2G which was the car that he destroyed
Correct, the G was built from the E, but there were TWO Es. One G
was wrecked. The other was restored as an E because Hall preferred the
lighter weight, smaller engine, cleaner lines, and nimblier handling
of the E. One of the Es was originally all new, the other was built
on a 2C tub. Hall still owns the wrecked G and could theoretically
build another E or a G.
His collection has been featured in magazines and there are at least
two books with a large section devoted to it. He currently has
a 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2H, 2J, and 2K (the John Barnard designed Indycar).
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:08:21 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> >I may be wrong, but I think there was a direct connection between the
> >Lola T600 and the Hendrick Corvette GTP.
> >
>
> Right againTom , the Corvette was a LOLA 710, the next genertion of the
T-600.
> I would like to see that one as a kit also.
A few years ago there was a toy car out that was said to be accurate
enough for a good scratchbuilding project. Never saw it though. Did see
a RC version.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 14 Jan 1999 01:34:29 GMT
>I may be wrong, but I think there was a direct connection between the
>Lola T600 and the Hendrick Corvette GTP.
>
Right againTom , the Corvette was a LOLA 710, the next genertion of the T-600.
I would like to see that one as a kit also.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 14 Jan 1999 01:37:05 GMT
>Tom,
>
>Just thought I'd drop you a note to let you know that AM did it pretty
>much correct with regards to the windscreens. Prior to 1970 it was
>perfectly legal to flatten the windscreen over the passenger seat
>area. The most extensive display of this was Chris Amon's Ferrari
>where the windscreen on the passenger side was a virtual tonneau cover
>made of lexan. In 1970 the rules were changed to mandate that the
>windscreen be symmetrical and allow enough room for the passenger to
>sit upright. Interesting what you can find out if you look past the
>pictures.
>
>Norm
Norm,
The problem is, that the team cars are from '69.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:48 -0500
thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett) wrote:
> jcsdlj@aol.com (JCSDLJ) wrote:
>
> > Hall does not have a 2E restored it is a 2D coupe that he has. The 2E became
> > the 2G which was the car that he destroyed
>
> Correct, the G was built from the E, but there were TWO Es. One G
> was wrecked. The other was restored as an E because Hall preferred the
> lighter weight, smaller engine, cleaner lines, and nimblier handling
> of the E. One of the Es was originally all new, the other was built
> on a 2C tub. Hall still owns the wrecked G and could theoretically
> build another E or a G.
> His collection has been featured in magazines and there are at least
> two books with a large section devoted to it. He currently has
> a 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2H, 2J, and 2K (the John Barnard designed Indycar).
Whoops. He doesn't have a 2C, its a 2. There was only one 2C
and it became a 2E, then a 2G. The article I have doesn't say
if the existing 2E was the one built from the 2C chassis or the
one built on a new chassis.
All three of the original three "glass" chassis exist, one as
the 2, one as the 2D, and one as the 2F. He has another set of
unassembled FRP monocoque panels...
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 14 Jan 1999 01:40:56 GMT
>Hall does not have a 2E restored it is a 2D coupe that he has. The 2E became
>the 2G which was the car that he destroyed
While looking through the book "Chapparal" I must be seeing things then
because it sure looks like a partially restored 2E.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:00:19 GMT
Tom,
Thanks for the URLs. I'll check them out and I'll check out the resin
kits as well.
Thanks
Norm
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:46:45 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Another group of cars that should be modeled, although who might be
>> doing these I don't know, is the Ferrari 333SP, Riley & Scott Fords,
>> and the Kudzu from WSC and the 8 Liter Panoz GTR-1 from FIA GT. The
>> one car I hope NEVER gets modeled is the Marcos from FIA GT-2. I
>> think one of the resin folks is doing the 333SP but I'd love to see it
>> in detailed plastic.
>
>The R&S is done in 1/24 resin too. Check out www.gpma.org for
>a comparison of the 333SP and R&S 1/24 resin kits. And sign
>up for the gpma listserve at: http://www.eGroups.com/list/gpma/
>if you haven't already. Lots of sporty car model types hanging
>out there. Kevin stewart deserves a big thanks for his contribution
>of bringing together internet sportscar/GT modelers.
>
>I think a Viper GTS-R would be great. It is a crowd favorite all
>over the world yet is american enough and brutal enough to appeal
>to the general US market, and is a series and Le Mans class winner.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:06:52 GMT
Tom,
Did you know that you can now build serious 1:1 kits of the Corvette
GS and Cheetah? Street legal too!
I raced a Cheetah slot for a while but it never seemed to be a popular
car. I raced a Chaparral 2D and 2E but never the 2A/C. That was my
friends speciality. I have fond memories of the Cooper-Monaco Ford
and raced that for 2 years. Ah, the memories!
Norm
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:39:09 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>I'd agree. Definitly 'Merican with Chevy V-8 and still memorable
>to this day. When I was a kid everyone wanted Chaparral and Cheeta
>slot cars.
>
>A Cheeta would be cool, but it only won one race.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:15:39 GMT
Keith,
Yes, I know and there are two different windscreens. One is for the
1969 team cars and has an asymmetrical layout and the windscreen for
the 70 and 71 is symmetrical. If you like I can send you an image
showing both items side by side and you can see the difference. I am
NOT saying that the screen for the 69 cars is totally accurate but it
is different.
The point I was trying to get across is that the rules change for 1970
changed the screens and we shouldn't expect them to be modeled the
same as the 69 team cars.
Norm
On 14 Jan 1999 01:37:05 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>>Tom,
>>
>>Just thought I'd drop you a note to let you know that AM did it pretty
>>much correct with regards to the windscreens. Prior to 1970 it was
>>perfectly legal to flatten the windscreen over the passenger seat
>>area. The most extensive display of this was Chris Amon's Ferrari
>>where the windscreen on the passenger side was a virtual tonneau cover
>>made of lexan. In 1970 the rules were changed to mandate that the
>>windscreen be symmetrical and allow enough room for the passenger to
>>sit upright. Interesting what you can find out if you look past the
>>pictures.
>>
>>Norm
>
>Norm,
>
>The problem is, that the team cars are from '69.
>
>Keith
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:32:29 GMT
Tom,
Glad to see you catch this. The car, is Hap Sharps uprated 2A to 2C
body work and specs. The Hap Sharp car is 6in wider than the real 2C
and has a 1in longer wheelbase The big visual difference between the
two cars is the 2A/C will normally be seen with a molded in duct that
starts on the right side of the radiator duct and extends back into
the windscreen in front of the driver. Looking at the restored car in
Falconers book, the car is restored with earlier rear bodywork and
doesn't include the flipper spoiler. It is really interesting to note
that Hap Sharps cars was raced not only as a 2A, but as a 2D and 2F.
Versitile cars, these Chaparrals. Now, if we can get someone to make
a nice detailed 2A, we could then get some else to make modification
kits to make the rest, except for the 2H and 2J.
Norm
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:48 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>Whoops. He doesn't have a 2C, its a 2. There was only one 2C
>and it became a 2E, then a 2G. The article I have doesn't say
>if the existing 2E was the one built from the 2C chassis or the
>one built on a new chassis.
>
>All three of the original three "glass" chassis exist, one as
>the 2, one as the 2D, and one as the 2F. He has another set of
>unassembled FRP monocoque panels...
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:45:48 GMT
Now I made the mistake. The Hap Sharp car has late 2A body work not a
mix of 2a and 2C.
Norm
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:32:29 GMT, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm
Cabana) wrote:
>Tom,
>
>Glad to see you catch this. The car, is Hap Sharps uprated 2A to 2C
>body work and specs. The Hap Sharp car is 6in wider than the real 2C
>and has a 1in longer wheelbase The big visual difference between the
>two cars is the 2A/C will normally be seen with a molded in duct that
>starts on the right side of the radiator duct and extends back into
>the windscreen in front of the driver. Looking at the restored car in
>Falconers book, the car is restored with earlier rear bodywork and
>doesn't include the flipper spoiler. It is really interesting to note
>that Hap Sharps cars was raced not only as a 2A, but as a 2D and 2F.
>Versitile cars, these Chaparrals. Now, if we can get someone to make
>a nice detailed 2A, we could then get some else to make modification
>kits to make the rest, except for the 2H and 2J.
>
>Norm
>
>On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:48 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
>wrote:
>
>>Whoops. He doesn't have a 2C, its a 2. There was only one 2C
>>and it became a 2E, then a 2G. The article I have doesn't say
>>if the existing 2E was the one built from the 2C chassis or the
>>one built on a new chassis.
>>
>>All three of the original three "glass" chassis exist, one as
>>the 2, one as the 2D, and one as the 2F. He has another set of
>>unassembled FRP monocoque panels...
>>
>>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:50:02 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Glad to see you catch this. The car, is Hap Sharps uprated 2A to 2C
> body work and specs. The Hap Sharp car is 6in wider than the real 2C
> and has a 1in longer wheelbase The big visual difference between the
> two cars is the 2A/C will normally be seen with a molded in duct that
> starts on the right side of the radiator duct and extends back into
> the windscreen in front of the driver. Looking at the restored car in
> Falconers book, the car is restored with earlier rear bodywork and
> doesn't include the flipper spoiler. It is really interesting to note
> that Hap Sharps cars was raced not only as a 2A, but as a 2D and 2F.
> Versitile cars, these Chaparrals. Now, if we can get someone to make
> a nice detailed 2A, we could then get some else to make modification
> kits to make the rest, except for the 2H and 2J.
There were a ton of Chaparral 2 slot bodies in the sixties. SAE
had an article a while back on a guy who scratchbuilt a chassis
to go along with one. Pretty impressive. I've only seen one recently
and a friend snapped it up. The hobby shop I worked at as a kid
had a pile of old slot stuff i wish I'd payed attention to.
Mini Exotic does the 2H and 2J in resin. MRRN had plans to scratchbuild
a 2J many years ago. MQ said he was working on a greatest hits edition
with reprints and updates of many articles. Perhaps he'll include
that one.
A reissue of the IMC 2E would be great. Last issued by Union of Japan.
I dug mine out earlier this evening and looked it over. A bit
crude but still, what a car!Its Jim Hall's favorite. Mine would be
it or the original 2.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:00:51 GMT
Tom,
Since you and Keith seem to be the fount of knowledge lately, do
either of you have the url for MCW Automotive Finishes? I assume MCW
stands for Model Car World? I want to buy a jar of thier paint for
the McLaren team cars, item 2070. The only address for them on GPMA
was for snail mail. Not even a phone number.
Thanks
Norm
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:46:45 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Another group of cars that should be modeled, although who might be
>> doing these I don't know, is the Ferrari 333SP, Riley & Scott Fords,
>> and the Kudzu from WSC and the 8 Liter Panoz GTR-1 from FIA GT. The
>> one car I hope NEVER gets modeled is the Marcos from FIA GT-2. I
>> think one of the resin folks is doing the 333SP but I'd love to see it
>> in detailed plastic.
>
>The R&S is done in 1/24 resin too. Check out www.gpma.org for
>a comparison of the 333SP and R&S 1/24 resin kits. And sign
>up for the gpma listserve at: http://www.eGroups.com/list/gpma/
>if you haven't already. Lots of sporty car model types hanging
>out there. Kevin stewart deserves a big thanks for his contribution
>of bringing together internet sportscar/GT modelers.
>
>I think a Viper GTS-R would be great. It is a crowd favorite all
>over the world yet is american enough and brutal enough to appeal
>to the general US market, and is a series and Le Mans class winner.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: "P.or C. Davis" <cpdavis@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:32:21 -0700
Just have to get in on this one. The model Corvette GTP based on the Lola
was produced by
Lanard Toys LTD in 1989. I have one sitting before me even now. Don't know
about the accuracy
of its dimentions but the shape and proportion see right on. It really is
quite nice.
I always pay attention to Chaparral / Jim Hall posts mainly because he used
to lap me on the track
with great regualarity as he was driving John Edgar's 5.7 Maserati and I was
in an E production TR-3a.
Somewhat of a speed differential. He always waved when he lapped you.
Obviously, this was before
the Chaparral era began ( 1961).
Cliff Davis
IPMS #3687
Littleton,
Colorado
Tom Hiett wrote:
> kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>
> > >I may be wrong, but I think there was a direct connection between the
> > >Lola T600 and the Hendrick Corvette GTP.
> > >
> >
> > Right againTom , the Corvette was a LOLA 710, the next genertion of the
> T-600.
> > I would like to see that one as a kit also.
>
> A few years ago there was a toy car out that was said to be accurate
> enough for a good scratchbuilding project. Never saw it though. Did see
> a RC version.
>
> Tom
>
> --
> Tom Hiett
> Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
> Check out my vintage race pics at:
> http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael Stucker)
Date: 14 Jan 1999 18:18:07 GMT
In article <369d8748.13067547@news.direcpc.com>, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com
says...
>Since you and Keith seem to be the fount of knowledge lately, do
>either of you have the url for MCW Automotive Finishes? I assume MCW
>stands for Model Car World? I want to buy a jar of thier paint for
>the McLaren team cars, item 2070. The only address for them on GPMA
>was for snail mail. Not even a phone number.
That's the way they does business, mail only. Which is a bummer if you
haven't ordered from them in a while and don't know if there has been a price
increase. Can't remember, does MCW even take credit cards?
--
Michael Stucker | Anadrill Schlumberger, Sugar Land, Texas
stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com | Definately not Anadrill's opinion.
Remove "$" from email address | Copyright Michael J. Stucker 1998
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
See a history of Can-Am racing at web-hou.iapc.net/~smh/articles.html#auto
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eagles may soar, but weasels don`t get sucked into jet engines.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:29:00 -0500
"Shaun Crist" <cristd@nospamwf.quik.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> HLJ has a resin Team Oreca Viper GTS-R listed as a future production.
> Another high dollar kit though at 14800 yen.
> Tom Hiett <thiett@iastate.edu> wrote in article
> > I think a Viper GTS-R would be great. It is a crowd favorite all
> > over the world yet is american enough and brutal enough to appeal
> > to the general US market, and is a series and Le Mans class winner.
Scale Designs has one too. But approx $100 resin kits aren't something
I buy a lot of.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: "Shaun Crist" <cristd@nospamwf.quik.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:57:02 GMT
Tom,
HLJ has a resin Team Oreca Viper GTS-R listed as a future production.
Another high dollar kit though at 14800 yen.
Shaun Crist
Tom Hiett <thiett@iastate.edu> wrote in article
<thiett-1301991246450001@hiett.itc.iastate.edu>...
> ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
> > Tom,
> >
> > Another group of cars that should be modeled, although who might be
> > doing these I don't know, is the Ferrari 333SP, Riley & Scott Fords,
> > and the Kudzu from WSC and the 8 Liter Panoz GTR-1 from FIA GT. The
> > one car I hope NEVER gets modeled is the Marcos from FIA GT-2. I
> > think one of the resin folks is doing the 333SP but I'd love to see it
> > in detailed plastic.
>
> The R&S is done in 1/24 resin too. Check out www.gpma.org for
> a comparison of the 333SP and R&S 1/24 resin kits. And sign
> up for the gpma listserve at: http://www.eGroups.com/list/gpma/
> if you haven't already. Lots of sporty car model types hanging
> out there. Kevin stewart deserves a big thanks for his contribution
> of bringing together internet sportscar/GT modelers.
>
> I think a Viper GTS-R would be great. It is a crowd favorite all
> over the world yet is american enough and brutal enough to appeal
> to the general US market, and is a series and Le Mans class winner.
>
> Tom
>
> --
> Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
> Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
> Check out my vintage race pics at:
> www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: "P.or C. Davis" <cpdavis@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:00:41 -0700
Sharp's car was 6 inches wider because Hap was 6 inches wider than Jim!!
;>)
Cliff
Norm Cabana wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Glad to see you catch this. The car, is Hap Sharps uprated 2A to 2C
> body work and specs. The Hap Sharp car is 6in wider than the real 2C
> and has a 1in longer wheelbase The big visual difference between the
> two cars is the 2A/C will normally be seen with a molded in duct that
> starts on the right side of the radiator duct and extends back into
> the windscreen in front of the driver. Looking at the restored car in
> Falconers book, the car is restored with earlier rear bodywork and
> doesn't include the flipper spoiler. It is really interesting to note
> that Hap Sharps cars was raced not only as a 2A, but as a 2D and 2F.
> Versitile cars, these Chaparrals. Now, if we can get someone to make
> a nice detailed 2A, we could then get some else to make modification
> kits to make the rest, except for the 2H and 2J.
>
> Norm
>
> On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:48 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
> wrote:
>
> >Whoops. He doesn't have a 2C, its a 2. There was only one 2C
> >and it became a 2E, then a 2G. The article I have doesn't say
> >if the existing 2E was the one built from the 2C chassis or the
> >one built on a new chassis.
> >
> >All three of the original three "glass" chassis exist, one as
> >the 2, one as the 2D, and one as the 2F. He has another set of
> >unassembled FRP monocoque panels...
> >
> >Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 08:58:32 -0500
(Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Keith,
>
> Sorry for the delayed reply. I've been a bit tied up with a project..
> Your list is fairly accurate. The GT40 Mk1 early is Aurora or IMC. I
> have the Aurora kit and it can be made into a decent 1965 Daytona or
> Sebring car with a lot of work. I just picked up an IMC GT40 Mk1
> (early) and both Revell Mk2 cars.
> That gives me three 1966 Le Mans
> cars, one 1966 Daytona car, and one mis-matched IMC Mk2 (that I got
> for $5 and the car came in a baggie with other parts. That will give
> me a total of 7 GT 40s.
I currently have:
IMC MKIV
Union reissue of above
MPC MKIV
MPC J-Car
Fujimi MKII
Revell reissue of above
IMC MKII
Plus I've sold some others.
> I'm not ready to put out all that money for the Mini-Exotics Lolas but
> they sure look nice. I've been watching e-bay to see if any of the
> models I'm looking for come up. I passed on several 330-P4s and was
> really going to bid hard for a Chaparral 2A but I have a hard time
> paying $96 for an AMT kit of anything!
Don't you have any swap meets in your area? I have never paid more
than $20 for any of my GT40s. Its takes a lot of hunting, but that
is the fun part. A Fujimi 330-P4 is probably one of the few kits I
regret not getting. I have had two of the Heller/Union kits but
sold them to friends.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:02:34 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> As you are finding out, just like I, accuracy is a difficult thing to
> attain with this hobby. The M8F photo I referenced was of a works
> McLaren. The engine trans combination was identical as far as I could
> determine. Gurney drove a M6 and and M8D. If I read the book
> correctly, Gurney was the first driver chosen when Bruce was killed.
> He was a very respected and feared driver. Jim Clark said that Dan
> Gurney was the only driver that he ever worried about beating him.
Gurney drove a works "B" for at least one race in 1969. The team generously
offered him their back-up car when he had on-going troubles with his.
The team cars finished 1-2-3, with Dan in third. Too bad they didn't
include decals for Gurney in the Am kit. I wonder if the Cady sheet
has this one?
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:10:21 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Since you and Keith seem to be the fount of knowledge lately, do
> either of you have the url for MCW Automotive Finishes? I assume MCW
> stands for Model Car World? I want to buy a jar of thier paint for
> the McLaren team cars, item 2070. The only address for them on GPMA
> was for snail mail. Not even a phone number.
>
> Thanks
>
> Norm
I have a catalog somehwere but I don't know if he has a web page.
I need to dig it out and figure out my special paint needs for the
next few months. I have not bought from him yet.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 06:46:08 GMT
Tom,
I finally got a phone number for them, 336-228-0240, and will call and
order a catalog and a jar of paint from them. Sure beats snail mail.
Norm
On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:10:21 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Since you and Keith seem to be the fount of knowledge lately, do
>> either of you have the url for MCW Automotive Finishes? I assume MCW
>> stands for Model Car World? I want to buy a jar of thier paint for
>> the McLaren team cars, item 2070. The only address for them on GPMA
>> was for snail mail. Not even a phone number.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Norm
>
>I have a catalog somehwere but I don't know if he has a web page.
>I need to dig it out and figure out my special paint needs for the
>next few months. I have not bought from him yet.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: musher@finescale.com (Matthew Usher)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:12:22 -0500
In article <36a529d1.14987274@news.direcpc.com>, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com
(Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I finally got a phone number for them, 336-228-0240, and will call and
> order a catalog and a jar of paint from them. Sure beats snail mail.
>
> Norm
>
Norm,
I used MCW's McLaren Orange lacquer (no. 2070) on the Accurate Miniatures
M8B I reviewed for FineScale Modeler. It's great stuff and I'd highly
recommend it.
Although you may be able to request MCW's catalog over the phone, you
won't be able to order anything -- they're strictly mailorder, and I don't
believe they have a website.
Their address is:
MCW Automotive Finishes
P.O. Box 0518
Burlington, NC 27216-0518
I primed the McLaren with MCW's light gray primer (no. 1004) to protect
the plastic from the lacquer, then applied the color coats with a Badger
350 single-action airbrush. I ended up using two 3/4-oz. bottles of
orange; Accurate's kit has a lot of body panels! I'd suggest starting with
the larger 2-oz. bottle.
Both paints worked well straight out of the jar; I didn't need to thin
either one of them.
I used MCW's Buff-Ez (no. 1015) to rub out the finish, after sanding it
lightly with 1000-grit wet-or-dry sandpaper.
Hope this helps!
Matthew Usher
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:16:06 GMT
Matthew,
Thank you very much for this information. It will help quite a lot as
I am building all three cars. When is your article going to appear in
FSM? SAE will have their first look in March (February 5 on the
newstands) and I can't wait to see it.
Did you build the kit strictly by the instructions or did you
personalize the buildup? I do know that some of the colors they call
for on several parts is not correct.
Norm
On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:12:22 -0500, musher@finescale.com (Matthew
Usher) wrote:
>In article <36a529d1.14987274@news.direcpc.com>, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com
>(Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> I finally got a phone number for them, 336-228-0240, and will call and
>> order a catalog and a jar of paint from them. Sure beats snail mail.
>>
>> Norm
>>
>
>Norm,
>
>I used MCW's McLaren Orange lacquer (no. 2070) on the Accurate Miniatures
>M8B I reviewed for FineScale Modeler. It's great stuff and I'd highly
>recommend it.
>
>Although you may be able to request MCW's catalog over the phone, you
>won't be able to order anything -- they're strictly mailorder, and I don't
>believe they have a website.
>
>Their address is:
>
>MCW Automotive Finishes
>P.O. Box 0518
>Burlington, NC 27216-0518
>
>I primed the McLaren with MCW's light gray primer (no. 1004) to protect
>the plastic from the lacquer, then applied the color coats with a Badger
>350 single-action airbrush. I ended up using two 3/4-oz. bottles of
>orange; Accurate's kit has a lot of body panels! I'd suggest starting with
>the larger 2-oz. bottle.
>
> Both paints worked well straight out of the jar; I didn't need to thin
>either one of them.
>
>I used MCW's Buff-Ez (no. 1015) to rub out the finish, after sanding it
>lightly with 1000-grit wet-or-dry sandpaper.
>
>Hope this helps!
>
>Matthew Usher
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: musher@finescale.com (Matthew Usher)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:25:43 -0500
In article <36a6aec6.2904412@news.direcpc.com>, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com
(Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Matthew,
>
> Thank you very much for this information. It will help quite a lot as
> I am building all three cars. When is your article going to appear in
> FSM? SAE will have their first look in March (February 5 on the
> newstands) and I can't wait to see it.
>
> Did you build the kit strictly by the instructions or did you
> personalize the buildup? I do know that some of the colors they call
> for on several parts is not correct.
>
> Norm
>
The review will appear in the March '99 FSM, which hits the streets Feb. 2.
It's a straight-out-of-the-box review of the No. 4 Bruce McLaren works car.
My model also appears in the March '99 SAE, with Mark Siegman's Building
Impressions article. The issue includes a Pit Pass for the M8B (with
photos by Tom Hiett) which would make an excellent color reference for the
kit.
Matthew Usher @ FSM
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael Stucker)
Date: 19 Jan 1999 17:52:09 GMT
In article <musher-1901990912220001@172.17.34.164>, musher@finescale.com
says...
>In article <36a529d1.14987274@news.direcpc.com>, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com
>(Norm Cabana) wrote:
>> I finally got a phone number for them, 336-228-0240, and will call and
>> order a catalog and a jar of paint from them. Sure beats snail mail.
>Although you may be able to request MCW's catalog over the phone, you
>won't be able to order anything -- they're strictly mailorder, and I don't
>believe they have a website.
>
>Their address is:
>
>MCW Automotive Finishes
>P.O. Box 0518
>Burlington, NC 27216-0518
They do take Visa/MC and you can fax them at the phone number. I assume you
can fax them an order. (At least, when I called them Monday to ask some
questions, they didn't say anything to me after I told them "Thanks, I'll be
faxing you an order in a couple of days.")
--
Michael Stucker | Anadrill Schlumberger, Sugar Land, Texas
stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com | Definately not Anadrill's opinion.
Remove "$" from email address | Copyright Michael J. Stucker 1998
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
See a history of Can-Am racing at web-hou.iapc.net/~smh/articles.html#auto
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eagles may soar, but weasels don`t get sucked into jet engines.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: John.Bondurant@cas.honeywell.com
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:08:45 GMT
Hi Norm,
I've seen Keith's posts citing inaccurate sizing on the hardware but I hadn't
seen anything on AMs colors being wrong. Would you be kind enough to list the
offenders?
Thanks,
John
In article <36a6aec6.2904412@news.direcpc.com>,
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Matthew,
>
> Thank you very much for this information. It will help quite a lot as
> I am building all three cars. When is your article going to appear in
> FSM? SAE will have their first look in March (February 5 on the
> newstands) and I can't wait to see it.
>
> Did you build the kit strictly by the instructions or did you
> personalize the buildup? I do know that some of the colors they call
> for on several parts is not correct.
>
> Norm
>
> On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:12:22 -0500, musher@finescale.com (Matthew
> Usher) wrote:
>
> >In article <36a529d1.14987274@news.direcpc.com>, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com
> >(Norm Cabana) wrote:
> >
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> I finally got a phone number for them, 336-228-0240, and will call and
> >> order a catalog and a jar of paint from them. Sure beats snail mail.
> >>
> >> Norm
> >>
> >
> >Norm,
> >
> >I used MCW's McLaren Orange lacquer (no. 2070) on the Accurate Miniatures
> >M8B I reviewed for FineScale Modeler. It's great stuff and I'd highly
> >recommend it.
> >
> >Although you may be able to request MCW's catalog over the phone, you
> >won't be able to order anything -- they're strictly mailorder, and I don't
> >believe they have a website.
> >
> >Their address is:
> >
> >MCW Automotive Finishes
> >P.O. Box 0518
> >Burlington, NC 27216-0518
> >
> >I primed the McLaren with MCW's light gray primer (no. 1004) to protect
> >the plastic from the lacquer, then applied the color coats with a Badger
> >350 single-action airbrush. I ended up using two 3/4-oz. bottles of
> >orange; Accurate's kit has a lot of body panels! I'd suggest starting with
> >the larger 2-oz. bottle.
> >
> > Both paints worked well straight out of the jar; I didn't need to thin
> >either one of them.
> >
> >I used MCW's Buff-Ez (no. 1015) to rub out the finish, after sanding it
> >lightly with 1000-grit wet-or-dry sandpaper.
> >
> >Hope this helps!
> >
> >Matthew Usher
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: aitala@beauty1.phy.olemiss.edu (Eric Aitala)
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:27:39 -0600
If anyone is interested, Cody Grayland has a detail set out for the McLarens...
Goto http://www.f1m.com/f1m/f1cg.shtml for more info....
Eric Aitala
--
***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****
Eric Aitala -> Rocket Scientist SF Junkie Center of Chaos
aitala@beauty1.phy.olemiss.edu
http://beauty1.phy.olemiss.edu/~aitala
"We don't need no education..." The Wall / Pink Floyd
***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** *****
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:08:25 GMT
Michael,
Well it is now kind of a moot point. I called them on the phone, got
prices for what I wanted, and sent a letter and moneyorder by priority
mail. I asked for two catalogs and hopefully they will deliver.
Have you ever used the Dupont Automotive Finishes that you can get
from BSR Replicas?
BTW, I looked at photos of some of the models you've built on GPMA.
You do nice work!
Norm
On 19 Jan 1999 17:52:09 GMT, stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael
Stucker) wrote:
>They do take Visa/MC and you can fax them at the phone number. I assume you
>can fax them an order. (At least, when I called them Monday to ask some
>questions, they didn't say anything to me after I told them "Thanks, I'll be
>faxing you an order in a couple of days.")
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:08:28 GMT
John,
Are you by any chance related to Bob Bondurant? Guess you get that a
lot don't you?
Colors....where to start. Ok, my reference will be Pete Lyons book
Can-Am, RaceFans Reference, and Tom Heitt's web site for now. There
aren't a ton of McLaren photos on the net. With the release of these
cars, imagine how much money a detailed set of color photos would be
worth. I guarantee that I'll have my full photo gear with me for the
next Monterey Historics!
Anyway, let's talk about the 69 cars. Just the engine assembly. The
engine block and heads are not semi-gloss black, but are instead flat
aluminum with bright (buffed) aluminum where there were machined
surfaces. The don't specifcally mention the dry sump oil pan, but I
would paint that to look like magnesium. Reference the photo on page
62 of Lyons book for a good look at this item. The photo is black and
white and you can easily tell that the sump is a cast material and it
is not the same color as the block.
The transaxle and bellhousing and parts E87 and E88 should probably be
magnesium, but a dark, almost brown, aluminum would work. Valve
covers are magnesium/dark aluminum not semi-gloss black. There is a
color shot of the engine as it sat in the 1968 M8A on page 161 of
Lyons book. that gives good color references for the injectors,
magneto, heads, headers, etc. The only real difference I can see on
the 1969 engine is in the valve covers. The 68 car has stamped steel
valve covers that were painted Chevrolet Orange and the 69 car had
cast magnesium covers.
The starter is not totally semi-gloss black but would have a bright
silver or silver with a yellow tint solenoid can and flat aluminum
nose piece where it attaches to the block. If you want to add
electrical wiring, there would be one battery wire and two small
control wires attached to the solenoid.
I don't know if these cars had an oil filter on the block and a remote
filter mounted to the left of the engine but if there acually was a
oil filter on the engine, it would probably be an orange Fram filter.
You will need to find the small Fram decal from some source, The
instructions tell you that item H154 is the oil screen filter and
lines and they instruct you to not paint the lines but don't say
anthing about the filter and housing. The picture on page 161 shows
that the filter should be orange with a flat aluminum head piece and
braided stainless lines with blue end fittings.
H159 is the oil pump and line combination. The real pump looks like a
rectangular piece of bright aluminum with several blue anodized
aluminum fittings. If you don't already have this book, you should
contact BSR Replicas and order RaceFans Reference. It has some great
photos of what these pumps and plumbing should look like and they show
the right colors. RFR is for NASCAR but the lines and fittings and
brakes are the same or similar to what Can-Am used
Let me add a note about the hardware and fluid lines used on these
cars. During WWII, there was a need within the military to ensure
that they received the highest quality hardware available. The crews
didn't mind going off to fight, but they damned well didn't want to
get killed because some nut didn't hold or a bolt broke. To ensure
that they had strong hardware, the Army and Navy developed a set of
standards called Army-AirForce-Navy Specifications. They were later
revised to simply Army-Navy Specifications or AN for short. Each nut,
bolt, washer, cable, hose, fitting, etc was very clearly specified.
In the USAF there is a manual titled AF Technical Order 1-1A-8 that
describes every nut, bolt, washer, and fastener used on USAF aircraft
There is another manual in the 1-1A series which describes every
acceptable hose and fitting that are used on USAF aircraft. The
reason I mention this is because this is the hardware that is used on
almost every serious racing vehicle in the US. As a result, it is
easy to define what colors certain items of hardware should be. For
example, on the transaxle, every nut and washer should be a cadmium
(kind of a very light brass color) color. I would say that the bolts
that attach the bellhousing to the block are a dark steel colo. The
bolts on the engine, especially the cylinder head bolts, will be a
dark steel, almost black color. The fittings that screw into things
like the oil pump or into the pan are either a transparent blue, for
the anodized aluminum pieces, or a dark steel/black color for the
steel pieces. Most of the stuff we will see on cars is aluminum. The
same applies to the screw in plug on top of the transaxle. Since this
is being screwed into a magnesium casing, the plug would probably be a
transparent blue color.
Aircraft quality hoses are made up of three parts: the hose itself,
large nut like hose end caps that are screwed onto each end of the
hose, and flare nuts or fittings and flare nuts that are screwed in
the hose end caps and secure the whole assembly together. These end
caps are designed to securely grip the end of the hose, both from the
inside and outside, and when properly installed, will allow the hose
to be attached to the appropriate fittings without putting any strain
on the hose itself. The flare nut can be a straight flare nut, a 45
degree tube with a flare nut, a 90 degree tube with a flare nut, and
in some instances a 180 degree tube with a flare nut. This is rather
difficult to describe properly. A good reference material that would
illustrate what I am trying to describe would be an Earl's Hose and
Fitting catalog. You should be able to get one from any good speed
shop.
Fluid hoses can be broken down into two types. One is braided
stainless steel with a teflon lining and the other is a neoprene hose
with a steel braid and neoprene coated fabric shell. If you see a
neoprene hose it will be black in color (unless you want to weather
the hose) and the hose end nuts will be a transparent yellow with a
hint of green and the flare nut will be dark steel. .These hoses are
not often seen on cars but are all over aircraft. The can handle
quite a bit of pressure but are not meant for high temperature, high
abrasion applications.
Stainless steel hoses will usually have transparent red end nuts with
dark steel, polished steel, or blue anodized aluminum flare nuts. In
some cases stainless steel end nuts and flare nuts or stainless steel
crimp on fittings are used with stainless steel braided hose. This
combination is for high temperature or extreme usage environments.
The only car application I know this combination is used for is
flexible brake lines or a connection directly into a header such as
fluid overflow. The other combination will be used for fuel and oil
lines where you do not want to chance that the lines could be damaged
by rocks and things and cause a leak. Assempled properly, stainless
steel braided lines with steel flare nuts attached to steel end
fittings should be able to withstand an engine explosion without
failing. I have seen aircraft crashes where the only thing left
holding the engine in place was the fluid lines!
The whole reason for the discussion of hoses and fittings is so you
will know where to dab on transparent red and blue paint. If you are
sharp, you'll notice that part G144 is molded in the wrong color.
Besides painting the small pully aluminum and the belt flat black, the
harmonic balancer should be painted gloss black. Finally we come to
the bulkhead D58. As described in Lyons book, this was a square tube
steel frame bulkhead with aluminum plate facing the cockpit. Looking
at the back of this piece you can see how this was assembled and
clearly see the front engine mount that is bolted to this bulkhead.
The engine mount was magnesium with an aluminum water pump and
alternator.
Let's see, I think the only item that they properly provide the colors
for is B38 and that is indeed aluminum and flat black....although the
tooth pulleys might actually be steel instead of aluminum.
On Step 2, the headers are NOT semi-gloss black. They weren't even
painted.
Do you really want me to continue on?
Norm
On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:08:45 GMT, John.Bondurant@cas.honeywell.com
wrote:
>Hi Norm,
>
>I've seen Keith's posts citing inaccurate sizing on the hardware but I hadn't
>seen anything on AMs colors being wrong. Would you be kind enough to list the
>offenders?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John
>
>
>In article <36a6aec6.2904412@news.direcpc.com>,
> ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>> Matthew,
>>
>> Thank you very much for this information. It will help quite a lot as
>> I am building all three cars. When is your article going to appear in
>> FSM? SAE will have their first look in March (February 5 on the
>> newstands) and I can't wait to see it.
>>
>> Did you build the kit strictly by the instructions or did you
>> personalize the buildup? I do know that some of the colors they call
>> for on several parts is not correct.
>>
>> Norm
>>
>> On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:12:22 -0500, musher@finescale.com (Matthew
>> Usher) wrote:
>>
>> >In article <36a529d1.14987274@news.direcpc.com>, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com
>> >(Norm Cabana) wrote:
>> >
>> >> Tom,
>> >>
>> >> I finally got a phone number for them, 336-228-0240, and will call and
>> >> order a catalog and a jar of paint from them. Sure beats snail mail.
>> >>
>> >> Norm
>> >>
>> >
>> >Norm,
>> >
>> >I used MCW's McLaren Orange lacquer (no. 2070) on the Accurate Miniatures
>> >M8B I reviewed for FineScale Modeler. It's great stuff and I'd highly
>> >recommend it.
>> >
>> >Although you may be able to request MCW's catalog over the phone, you
>> >won't be able to order anything -- they're strictly mailorder, and I don't
>> >believe they have a website.
>> >
>> >Their address is:
>> >
>> >MCW Automotive Finishes
>> >P.O. Box 0518
>> >Burlington, NC 27216-0518
>> >
>> >I primed the McLaren with MCW's light gray primer (no. 1004) to protect
>> >the plastic from the lacquer, then applied the color coats with a Badger
>> >350 single-action airbrush. I ended up using two 3/4-oz. bottles of
>> >orange; Accurate's kit has a lot of body panels! I'd suggest starting with
>> >the larger 2-oz. bottle.
>> >
>> > Both paints worked well straight out of the jar; I didn't need to thin
>> >either one of them.
>> >
>> >I used MCW's Buff-Ez (no. 1015) to rub out the finish, after sanding it
>> >lightly with 1000-grit wet-or-dry sandpaper.
>> >
>> >Hope this helps!
>> >
>> >Matthew Usher
>>
>>
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 07:17:37 GMT
Eric,
Thanks for telling us about this site. Looks like some nice stuff,
pricey, but nice. I have the site bookmarked.
Norm
On Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:27:39 -0600, aitala@beauty1.phy.olemiss.edu
(Eric Aitala) wrote:
>If anyone is interested, Cody Grayland has a detail set out for the McLarens...
>
>Goto http://www.f1m.com/f1m/f1cg.shtml for more info....
>
>
>Eric Aitala
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: lito626@aol.com (Lito626)
Date: 23 Jan 1999 15:41:01 GMT
>Let's see, I think the only item that they properly provide the colors
>for is B38 and that is indeed aluminum and flat black....although the
>tooth pulleys might actually be steel instead of aluminum.
>
>On Step 2, the headers are NOT semi-gloss black. They weren't even
>painted.
>
>Do you really want me to continue on?
>
>Norm
Now let me see if I have this right..... None of the color references are
right, the kit's own instructions admit you probably can't display all the body
panels in place if you use all the parts, some of the parts may be impossible
to place correctly, and yet this is supposed to be the greatest car kit ever
produced?
Has anyone noticed the Emperor may not be wearing any clothes?
Larry Litoborski
Lito626@aol.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: dsch167054@aol.com (DSch167054)
Date: 23 Jan 1999 19:05:21 GMT
>Now let me see if I have this right..... None of the color references are
>right, the kit's own instructions admit you probably can't display all the
>body
>panels in place if you use all the parts, some of the parts may be impossible
>to place correctly, and yet this is supposed to be the greatest car kit ever
>produced?
>
>Has anyone noticed the Emperor may not be wearing any clothes?
I've yet to see a set of instructions that went into the sort of detail you
would need to do an accurate model, including all of the details. The one
published buildup review of the kit claimed to get all the parts under the body
panels - you just couldn't see some of them. I've bought a few of the high
dollar import kits everyone oohs and ahhs over (Tamiya and Fujimi) and they're
not perfect either. The AM kit isn't perfect but it sure has a lot of
potential, and AM seems to be the only company willing to even attempt kits at
this level today (Fujimi hasn't done a new "Enthusiast" kit in years - rumor
is that line of kits almost bankrupted the company!).
Don Schmitz
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: Richard McNally <rmcnally@bellsouth.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 20:06:53 GMT
DSch167054 wrote:
> >Now let me see if I have this right..... None of the color references are
> >right, the kit's own instructions admit you probably can't display all the
> >body
> >panels in place if you use all the parts, some of the parts may be impossible
> >to place correctly, and yet this is supposed to be the greatest car kit ever
> >produced?
> >
> >Has anyone noticed the Emperor may not be wearing any clothes?
>
> I've yet to see a set of instructions that went into the sort of detail you
> would need to do an accurate model, including all of the details. The one
> published buildup review of the kit claimed to get all the parts under the body
> panels - you just couldn't see some of them. I've bought a few of the high
> dollar import kits everyone oohs and ahhs over (Tamiya and Fujimi) and they're
> not perfect either. The AM kit isn't perfect but it sure has a lot of
> potential, and AM seems to be the only company willing to even attempt kits at
> this level today (Fujimi hasn't done a new "Enthusiast" kit in years - rumor
> is that line of kits almost bankrupted the company!).
>
> Don Schmitz
The current issue os SAE has the Can Am detailed an has the color chart for the
original colors for all parts. Check it out.
--
Richard W. McNally
Imaginique, Inc.
models@imaginiqueinc.com
http://www.imaginiqueinc.com/cybergalleria/sace.html
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:24:15 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Matthew,
>
> Thank you very much for this information. It will help quite a lot as
> I am building all three cars. When is your article going to appear in
> FSM? SAE will have their first look in March (February 5 on the
> newstands) and I can't wait to see it.
Just saw the March SAE and FSM with Matt's review this afternoon at the
hobby shop.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:50:26 -0500
dsch167054@aol.com (DSch167054) wrote:
> I've yet to see a set of instructions that went into the sort of detail you
> would need to do an accurate model, including all of the details. The one
> published buildup review of the kit claimed to get all the parts under
the body
> panels - you just couldn't see some of them. I've bought a few of the high
> dollar import kits everyone oohs and ahhs over (Tamiya and Fujimi) and they're
> not perfect either. The AM kit isn't perfect but it sure has a lot of
> potential, and AM seems to be the only company willing to even attempt kits at
> this level today (Fujimi hasn't done a new "Enthusiast" kit in years - rumor
> is that line of kits almost bankrupted the company!).
I'm agreeing with Don.
BTW-Fujimi just did a new enthusiast kit last year- the Lancia Stratos.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:17:15 GMT
Larry,
This emperor has no more or less clothing than any other emperor. As
Don S. has mentioned, there are NO assembly instructions for models
that can ever cover all of the details. Just look at how much space I
used to describe what the "right" colors should be. Imagine if they
had to continue that level of explanation all the way through.
This is a very complex kit, easily the match of any of the 60's IMC
and MPC kits yet with all of the detail clarity afforded by modern
technology. I expect to have a difficult time putting these kits
together, just as I did with the IMC and MPC kits. Nothing worth
doing well is ever easy unless you practice doing it for a very long
time. I have kits from Fujimi (GT40 and Ferrari F40) and they are
very nice kits and have no where near the complexity of the AM kits
and when I'm finished with them, I won't have anywhere near the same
feeling of accomplishment as I will with the McLarens..
I currently have two Tamiya F1 kits, awaiting my attention, and they
are very nice. They damn well better be nice for the price I paid for
them! I must say that the plastic, as it is displayed in the box,
looks nicer than the AM stuff. It has an exaggerated detail that
seems to stand out more than the AM stuff, but then again we are
talking about 1:20 and 1:12 and they should have more detail. I think
that the reason the plastic looks better is because is has color in
it. The engine is a silver gray, the body is the color of the car,
etc. You could build the car without paint and it wouldn't look too
bad.
It looks nice in the box, but I don't leave my models in the box. So
I'll still be putting in as much or more effort removing flash and
getting things to fit and I'll have to do more scratch and detail work
to bring it up to the level of the AM kits. What can I say. None of
these things are perfect. I'll be buying three sets of resin tires
from MiniExotics to replace the ones that came with the AM kits. Why?
I want to make it look a little better. I don't have to change them,
but I will. I can paint the car as suggested by AM, but I won't,
simply because I know what some of these things are supposed to look
like and I want my cars to look a little better. That's what this is
all about.
For example, on Step 2 of the AM kit assembly, they talk about leaving
out the engine supports. I can fully understand why as it looks like
a difficult item to install and could easily be broken. Assuming that
I elect to put the pieces in, what color do I paint it? The kit says
entirely semi-gloss black. I know that this is wrong. Looking at
whatever photos I can find, the piece is acutally a gloss black. I
would paint the engine support gloss black and the two ends that
attach to the bulkhead would be painted shiny silver and I would put a
little dot of cadmium colored paint on the end that attaches to the
engine. These colors would simulate the heim joints where the
supports attach to the bulkhead and the cadmium would simulate the
bolt that attaches the support to the engine. These are simply
details that make the kit look a little better than stock, but
certainly won't make up for poor workmanship on my part. When you
think about it, it takes a bit of courage AND confidence on the part
of AM to tell you that you might want to leave parts off. Can you
imagine Tamiya doing that?
Norm
>Now let me see if I have this right..... None of the color references are
>right, the kit's own instructions admit you probably can't display all the body
>panels in place if you use all the parts, some of the parts may be impossible
>to place correctly, and yet this is supposed to be the greatest car kit ever
>produced?
>
>Has anyone noticed the Emperor may not be wearing any clothes?
>Larry Litoborski
>Lito626@aol.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:17:18 GMT
Richard,
This should be interesting considering what AM used as the basis for
the kits. I haven't seen the current issue of SAE but I will be
looking for it with great interest.
Norm
>The current issue os SAE has the Can Am detailed an has the color chart for the
>original colors for all parts. Check it out.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:25:33 -0500
Don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but I just got another e-mail
from Paul Hunter, Bruce McLaren's nephew and web master for the
Bruce McLaren Trust webpage. His mother heads up the trust and
they have all of the factory records.
> M8B engines/transaxles- Most of the photos I have of the factory cars
> show them unpainted but many say they should both be painted
> semi gloss black (as are many of the other McLarens that are vintage
> raced) but that some variations existed. Do you have any
> info or thoughts on this?
Most long blocks that is block, heads were painted satin black
All other magnesium components that is, sumps, water pump,
transaxles, bell housing were painted Dow 7 magnesium finish, that
colour is a blue green black, it is difficult to give accurate colour
from photos.
The M8A motor was a natural finish, aluminium block heads etc, the rocker
covers were GM orange.
>I'm reading that the M8B monocoque had magnesium floor and side panels and
>should be a darker colour. Is this true?
The M8A only had magnesium floor and side panels.
Any comment on which McLaren team cars had monocoque painted grey?
The M6A was the only car that had the monocoque painted grey.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 06:54:49 GMT
Tom,
Don't be modest. You DO mean to add fuel to the fire. Heck, it
livens things up and I'm glad you are! Fuel away! I assume that the
exchange below is your questions to Paul Hunter and his replies,
correct? I stand corrected on the colors issue, but then again....if
I read this correctly most, but not all, of the long blocks were satin
black. Cool! Does that mean that some, but not most, were bare metal
like we see in Can-Am? It is ironic that the photos we have that show
the engine, show it bare and the folks who should certainly know, say
they were black. What was the color of the M8D engines? The M8F is
shown in track trim as bare metal, is this a fluke or did they stop
painting the engines?
Since you have these marvelous contacts, you lucky dog, could you ask
them if the underside of the car was painted body color or was it left
as bare metal? Was the tub and cockpit bare metal or was it painted?
Heck, can you get copies of any photos they have of the cars or can
they post the photos on the web?
Dang this is frustrating. Thankfully I haven't put paint to plastic
yet on the M8Bs.
Thanks
Norm
>Don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but I just got another e-mail
>from Paul Hunter, Bruce McLaren's nephew and web master for the
>Bruce McLaren Trust webpage. His mother heads up the trust and
>they have all of the factory records.
>
>> M8B engines/transaxles- Most of the photos I have of the factory cars
>> show them unpainted but many say they should both be painted
>> semi gloss black (as are many of the other McLarens that are vintage
>> raced) but that some variations existed. Do you have any
>> info or thoughts on this?
>
> Most long blocks that is block, heads were painted satin black
> All other magnesium components that is, sumps, water pump,
> transaxles, bell housing were painted Dow 7 magnesium finish, that
> colour is a blue green black, it is difficult to give accurate colour
> from photos.
>
> The M8A motor was a natural finish, aluminium block heads etc, the rocker
> covers were GM orange.
>
>>I'm reading that the M8B monocoque had magnesium floor and side panels and
>>should be a darker colour. Is this true?
>
> The M8A only had magnesium floor and side panels.
>
>Any comment on which McLaren team cars had monocoque painted grey?
>
> The M6A was the only car that had the monocoque painted grey.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: lito626@aol.com (Lito626)
Date: 26 Jan 1999 00:30:31 GMT
>Larry,
>
>This emperor has no more or less clothing than any other emperor.
Norm, thanks for the thoughtful response. I realize the bottom line in terms
of satisfaction with a kit depends strictly on your point of view.
My comment had more to do with the fact that the hype that preceded this kit as
well as the comments in the reviews and even in this newsgroup seemed to imply
this was the ultimate of what a kit ought to be. I bought the kit the first
day it hit my shop, but I have to say it was with reservations. I had seen a
couple of reviews (SMI, SAM) and in both the body panels did not fit, making a
model that took a lot of work to assemble look a little ragged.
I've been building models for a long time and have had to deal with poor
fitting parts, and even expect to do so. But here was the "ultimate" in kit
design and engineering, and the reviewers either had to leave off parts or
found out too late that you can't put the body together without having big gaps
between the panels.
I guess after all the buildup, I expected AM to engineer the kit to look good
when I'm finished, rather than having to do it myself.
Larry Litoborski
Lito626@aol.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@ibm.net (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:05:47 GMT
Larry,
Your thoughts match mine. I'm not going to go into it here, but check
the Feb. 1 issue of Internet Modeler and you'll see what I mean. The
kits are good, but they do have flaws. Yep, there was a ton of hype
and for the most part, they have lived up to it. Your last sentence
is spot on. It was not engineered to look good going together,
instead, it is engineered to give you all the materials needed to make
you look great if you have the skills and patience to do it.. The
hype, if we can call it that, was created more from us, than from AM.
When I saw the demo cars at the IPMS Nationals, I was standing there
drooling with anticipation. I was in lust! Do you think I'd say
anything bad about the cars? Not on your life! Just give me mine!
Yeah, we did froth a little.
Norm
>Norm, thanks for the thoughtful response. I realize the bottom line in terms
>of satisfaction with a kit depends strictly on your point of view.
>
>My comment had more to do with the fact that the hype that preceded this kit as
>well as the comments in the reviews and even in this newsgroup seemed to imply
>this was the ultimate of what a kit ought to be. I bought the kit the first
>day it hit my shop, but I have to say it was with reservations. I had seen a
>couple of reviews (SMI, SAM) and in both the body panels did not fit, making a
>model that took a lot of work to assemble look a little ragged.
>
>I've been building models for a long time and have had to deal with poor
>fitting parts, and even expect to do so. But here was the "ultimate" in kit
>design and engineering, and the reviewers either had to leave off parts or
>found out too late that you can't put the body together without having big gaps
>between the panels.
>
>I guess after all the buildup, I expected AM to engineer the kit to look good
>when I'm finished, rather than having to do it myself.
>
>
>Larry Litoborski
>Lito626@aol.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:04:21 -0500
Larry wrote:
> >Norm, thanks for the thoughtful response. I realize the bottom line in terms
> >of satisfaction with a kit depends strictly on your point of view.
> >
> >My comment had more to do with the fact that the hype that preceded
this kit as
> >well as the comments in the reviews and even in this newsgroup seemed
to imply
> >this was the ultimate of what a kit ought to be. I bought the kit the first
> >day it hit my shop, but I have to say it was with reservations. I had seen a
> >couple of reviews (SMI, SAM) and in both the body panels did not fit,
making a
> >model that took a lot of work to assemble look a little ragged.
AM didn't make the claims we heard over the past few years so I can't discredit
them for over hyping it. IMHO its no worse than the many far less detailed
Tamiya kits that I put together to find translucent decals which ruin the
appearance.
AM has attempted so much more than 99.5% of the 1/24 scale kits. The only kits
of this scale that I have built that come close are the Fujimi Enthusiast
series and there are few race cars in that series.
> >I've been building models for a long time and have had to deal with poor
> >fitting parts, and even expect to do so. But here was the "ultimate" in kit
> >design and engineering, and the reviewers either had to leave off parts or
> >found out too late that you can't put the body together without having
big gaps
> >between the panels.
I've been building for a long time too. This is my first kit where they
included
the AN fittings and steel lines, other than my 1/8 scale McLaren M23. They point
out the realities of design and molding a car in 1/24 scale means body panel
thickness cannot be to scale and therefore something has to give. Had they
allowed
clearance then something else would have had to be out of scale. Any other
company would have simply left off the lines and fittings or molded them in.
What would you have done that would be better? If they had left then lines off
and someone were to add aftermarket lines they likely would have had similar
fit problems. They provided the bits and leave it to the builder to decide.
> >I guess after all the buildup, I expected AM to engineer the kit to look good
> >when I'm finished, rather than having to do it myself.
No kit I've had has been perfect. From what I've read about the kit it
doesn't sound
like it takes any special effort to build this kit than a comprehensive kit from
other manufacturers. I'm glad to get this subject any way I can.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: Frank DeMaio <imsafan@home.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:33:10 GMT
is that all people can do is complain????? get a life people....there is
no way you'll ever get that perfect kit you've been searching for. So
just sit back pour yourself a real stiff one put on your favorite
building tunes and open up your anal minds and enjoy. After all this is
only a hobby.
Tom this isn't directed at you in any way. I just hate the bitching and
complaining by so many people on here about the little things.You are
the only one who seems to be enjoying himself. Happy building.......
Remember..don't stiff
the glue.
Frank
Tom Hiett wrote:
>
> Larry wrote:
>
> > >Norm, thanks for the thoughtful response. I realize the bottom line in terms
> > >of satisfaction with a kit depends strictly on your point of view.
> > >
> > >My comment had more to do with the fact that the hype that preceded
> this kit as
> > >well as the comments in the reviews and even in this newsgroup seemed
> to imply
> > >this was the ultimate of what a kit ought to be. I bought the kit the first
> > >day it hit my shop, but I have to say it was with reservations. I had seen a
> > >couple of reviews (SMI, SAM) and in both the body panels did not fit,
> making a
> > >model that took a lot of work to assemble look a little ragged.
>
> AM didn't make the claims we heard over the past few years so I can't discredit
> them for over hyping it. IMHO its no worse than the many far less detailed
> Tamiya kits that I put together to find translucent decals which ruin the
> appearance.
> AM has attempted so much more than 99.5% of the 1/24 scale kits. The only kits
> of this scale that I have built that come close are the Fujimi Enthusiast
> series and there are few race cars in that series.
>
> > >I've been building models for a long time and have had to deal with poor
> > >fitting parts, and even expect to do so. But here was the "ultimate" in kit
> > >design and engineering, and the reviewers either had to leave off parts or
> > >found out too late that you can't put the body together without having
> big gaps
> > >between the panels.
>
> I've been building for a long time too. This is my first kit where they
> included
> the AN fittings and steel lines, other than my 1/8 scale McLaren M23. They point
> out the realities of design and molding a car in 1/24 scale means body panel
> thickness cannot be to scale and therefore something has to give. Had they
> allowed
> clearance then something else would have had to be out of scale. Any other
> company would have simply left off the lines and fittings or molded them in.
> What would you have done that would be better? If they had left then lines off
> and someone were to add aftermarket lines they likely would have had similar
> fit problems. They provided the bits and leave it to the builder to decide.
>
> > >I guess after all the buildup, I expected AM to engineer the kit to look good
> > >when I'm finished, rather than having to do it myself.
>
> No kit I've had has been perfect. From what I've read about the kit it
> doesn't sound
> like it takes any special effort to build this kit than a comprehensive kit from
> other manufacturers. I'm glad to get this subject any way I can.
>
> Tom
>
> --
> Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
> Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
> Check out my vintage race pics at:
> www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:55:26 -0500
lito626@aol.com (Lito626) wrote:
> Now let me see if I have this right..... None of the color references are
> right, the kit's own instructions admit you probably can't display all
the body
> panels in place if you use all the parts, some of the parts may be impossible
> to place correctly, and yet this is supposed to be the greatest car kit ever
> produced?
>
> Has anyone noticed the Emperor may not be wearing any clothes?
Sounds like if they had left off all the parts other manufacturers
leave off, eliminating the OPTION of using them, and if they didn't attempt
detailed painting instructions, then there would be far fewer complaints.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: Dwayne <cruzn1@home.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:47:46 GMT
I still want a Kit of this,, and i have the skills to build it the way
"I" see fit.. as for accuraccy,.. when its on the table for Judging
If I build it for competition or not,it will still be a Niceaddition to
My collection
Lito626 wrote:
>
> >Larry,
> >
> >This emperor has no more or less clothing than any other emperor.
>
> Norm, thanks for the thoughtful response. I realize the bottom line in terms
> of satisfaction with a kit depends strictly on your point of view.
>
> My comment had more to do with the fact that the hype that preceded this kit as
> well as the comments in the reviews and even in this newsgroup seemed to imply
> this was the ultimate of what a kit ought to be. I bought the kit the first
> day it hit my shop, but I have to say it was with reservations. I had seen a
> couple of reviews (SMI, SAM) and in both the body panels did not fit, making a
> model that took a lot of work to assemble look a little ragged.
>
> I've been building models for a long time and have had to deal with poor
> fitting parts, and even expect to do so. But here was the "ultimate" in kit
> design and engineering, and the reviewers either had to leave off parts or
> found out too late that you can't put the body together without having big gaps
> between the panels.
>
> I guess after all the buildup, I expected AM to engineer the kit to look good
> when I'm finished, rather than having to do it myself.
>
> Larry Litoborski
> Lito626@aol.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@ibm.net (Norm Cabana)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 06:38:41 GMT
Dwayne and others
I'm looking into a source of replacement wheels and tires for the
M8Bs. I'll post once I have confirmed that they will work.
Norm
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:47:46 GMT, Dwayne <cruzn1@home.com> wrote:
>I still want a Kit of this,, and i have the skills to build it the way
>"I" see fit.. as for accuraccy,.. when its on the table for Judging
>If I build it for competition or not,it will still be a Niceaddition to
>My collection
>
>
>Lito626 wrote:
>>
>> >Larry,
>> >
>> >This emperor has no more or less clothing than any other emperor.
>>
>> Norm, thanks for the thoughtful response. I realize the bottom line in terms
>> of satisfaction with a kit depends strictly on your point of view.
>>
>> My comment had more to do with the fact that the hype that preceded this kit as
>> well as the comments in the reviews and even in this newsgroup seemed to imply
>> this was the ultimate of what a kit ought to be. I bought the kit the first
>> day it hit my shop, but I have to say it was with reservations. I had seen a
>> couple of reviews (SMI, SAM) and in both the body panels did not fit, making a
>> model that took a lot of work to assemble look a little ragged.
>>
>> I've been building models for a long time and have had to deal with poor
>> fitting parts, and even expect to do so. But here was the "ultimate" in kit
>> design and engineering, and the reviewers either had to leave off parts or
>> found out too late that you can't put the body together without having big gaps
>> between the panels.
>>
>> I guess after all the buildup, I expected AM to engineer the kit to look good
>> when I'm finished, rather than having to do it myself.
>>
>> Larry Litoborski
>> Lito626@aol.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: Randy & Vicki Frost <perrysresin@sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:23:53 -0800
Norm Cabana wrote:
>
> Dwayne and others
>
> I'm looking into a source of replacement wheels and tires for the
> M8Bs. I'll post once I have confirmed that they will work.
I'll have rims soon in resin, and we'll also be doing tires for Can-Am
to fit our soon to be released Lola T260 and Ferrari 712 which will be
the same size as the M8B's.
Randy
http://www3.sympatico.ca/perrysresin
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@ibm.net (Norm Cabana)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 16:20:29 GMT
Randy,
Great! I'll look forward to seeing what they look like.
Norm
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:23:53 -0800, Randy & Vicki Frost
<perrysresin@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>Norm Cabana wrote:
>>
>> Dwayne and others
>>
>> I'm looking into a source of replacement wheels and tires for the
>> M8Bs. I'll post once I have confirmed that they will work.
>
>
> I'll have rims soon in resin, and we'll also be doing tires for Can-Am
>to fit our soon to be released Lola T260 and Ferrari 712 which will be
>the same size as the M8B's.
>Randy
>http://www3.sympatico.ca/perrysresin
***
Last modified: January 29, 1998
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