Digest of rec.models.scale
The AM McLaren Thread
January 1999
This digest presents the marathon discussion
dealing with the Accurate Miniatures McLaren M8B.
These messages are unedited and retain the
original headers for identification purposes. All messages are copyright
the original author and are not presented for commercial use.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 31 Dec 1998 14:16:35 GMT
On Sat, 26 Dec 1998 22:02:37 GMT, Frank DeMaio <imsafan@home.com>
wrote:
>Wow!!!!!! I got two of the three kits and they're wonderful. Sure wish
>the Japanese now can get their act together and produce something like
>these. The detail in these are awesome. Very good motor detail and
>excellent interior detail. If you haven't got one yet get one!!!
>now i heard that it's only available up here in Canada for now.
>
>
> Frank
These kits no where equal to Tamiya or Fugimi in detail quality. Most of the
casting are crude or inaccurate for the cars that they are to represent. But,
hey, nobody else is making these things, and if the MaClaren was produced by
one of the resin casters, you would be paying a lot more and getting less.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 09:34:34 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
Frank DeMaio <imsafan@home.com> wrote:
>
> >Wow!!!!!! I got two of the three kits and they're wonderful. Sure wish
> >the Japanese now can get their act together and produce something like
> >these. The detail in these are awesome. Very good motor detail and
> >excellent interior detail. If you haven't got one yet get one!!!
> >now i heard that it's only available up here in Canada for now.
> These kits no where equal to Tamiya or Fugimi in detail quality. Most of the
> casting are crude or inaccurate for the cars that they are to represent. But,
> hey, nobody else is making these things, and if the MaClaren was produced by
> one of the resin casters, you would be paying a lot more and getting less.
Its always amusing to hear such different opinions about the same
subject.
Although every Tamiya kit I've bought has been very good,
no 1/20 or 1/24 scale kit I have even attempt anywhere the detail AM
has attempted. My Fujimi Porsche 356C kit is the most awesome kit I've
built, but the 911 RS was considerably less satisfying. I have a model
magazine review on the 911 enthusiast series kits that was pretty
negative. I'd certainly would buy another Fujimi 356 but not another 911.
Then there was the Fujimi F14 Tomcat. I finally threw it in the trash
a few days ago. A seemingly never ending burden has been lifted from my
soul...
I'm still waiting for my McLaren kit. I've heard from a guy who has
completed it and I have the Scale Auto Modeler story on it. I'm sure
I will have no regrets.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: d3eubanks@aol.com (D3Eubanks)
Date: 1 Jan 1999 10:23:06 GMT
>These kits no where equal to Tamiya or Fugimi in detail quality. Most of the
>casting are crude or inaccurate for the cars that they are to represent.
>But,
>hey, nobody else is making these things, and if the MaClaren was produced by
>one of the resin casters, you would be paying a lot more and getting less.
>
>Keith
So, Keith ...
You've actually examined one of these kits? I spent most of this evening
looking them over with the aid of some references I have. I'm having some
trouble identifying the crudeness and inaccuracies in the AM kits. Care to get
a bit more specific with what you see as "crude and inaccurate?"
So much time and so little to do .....
Dean
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: "Shaun Crist" <cristd@nospamwf.quik.com>
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 18:08:45 GMT
Keith,
Have you seen the Tamiya 1/18th McLaren kit? Talk about crude and
inaccurate. I'm sure if they produced a new kit it would be much better,
but until they do AM is the source. I'm been very satisfied with their
automotive subjects and hope the continue to produce more.
Shaun Crist
>
> These kits no where equal to Tamiya or Fugimi in detail quality. Most of
the
> casting are crude or inaccurate for the cars that they are to represent.
But,
> hey, nobody else is making these things, and if the MaClaren was produced
by
> one of the resin casters, you would be paying a lot more and getting
less.
>
> Keith
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: cptmatt@aol.com (CptMatt)
Date: 1 Jan 1999 23:25:47 GMT
I agree with Dean, I built the AM Gran Sport model. I found it to be the equal
or better of any mass production company. Everything was crisp, detailed and
wonderfully sans any flash. Part fit easily and accurately. The accuracy to the
car they are replicating is wonderful.
As kit makers go, I give them a solid A+.
Rob Mc.
--------------------------------------------
>>These kits no where equal to Tamiya or Fugimi in detail quality. Most of
>the
>>casting are crude or inaccurate for the cars that they are to represent.
>>But,
>>hey, nobody else is making these things, and if the MaClaren was produced by
>>one of the resin casters, you would be paying a lot more and getting less.
>>
>>Keith
>
>So, Keith ...
>
>You've actually examined one of these kits? I spent most of this evening
>looking them over with the aid of some references I have. I'm having some
>trouble identifying the crudeness and inaccuracies in the AM kits. Care to
>get
>a bit more specific with what you see as "crude and inaccurate?"
>So much time and so little to do .....
>
>Dean
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 1 Jan 1999 23:52:04 GMT
>So, Keith ...
>
>You've actually examined one of these kits? I spent most of this evening
>looking them over with the aid of some references I have. I'm having some
>trouble identifying the crudeness and inaccuracies in the AM kits. Care to
>get
>a bit more specific with what you see as "crude and inaccurate?"
>So much time and so little to do .....
>
>Dean
>
You need to check out the version of the car you are modeling For instance,
the team cars for '69 use a different shape of windshield, the intake do not
get siamesed at the top, the front wheels are completely wrong, the shape of
the engine block at the belhousing is wrong, the heads are an abortion. the
tire tread is wrong, the engraving is below the Granf Sport kit, need I go
further.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 1 Jan 1999 23:58:37 GMT
>I agree with Dean, I built the AM Gran Sport model. I found it to be the
>equal
>or better of any mass production company. Everything was crisp, detailed and
>wonderfully sans any flash. Part fit easily and accurately. The accuracy to
>the
>car they are replicating is wonderful.
>As kit makers go, I give them a solid A+.
>
>Rob Mc.
I agree that the Grand Sport was a good kit, the detail was crisp, and most
everything was right, except for the distributor mount, the wheel shape, poor
tread on the tires, and the front stabilizer bar which mounted in thin air.
After building three GS kit and now the McLaren it appears to me that AM used a
different die shop to contract the work out to.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 2 Jan 1999 00:06:31 GMT
Keith,
Have you seen the Tamiya 1/18th McLaren kit? Talk about crude and
inaccurate. I'm sure if they produced a new kit it would be much better,
but until they do AM is the source. I'm been very satisfied with their
automotive subjects and hope the continue to produce more.
Shaun Crist
I agree the 1/18 Tamiya's were crude, that is why I sold mine. But,
comparing the AM kit to Tamiya Porsche 956, Jaguar XJR-9LM, plus others in the
LeMans racing series, there is no comparison . The AM guys seem to build good
airplanes but apparently do not have much experience with automobiles..
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 01:59:29 GMT
Keith,
You do, of course, have photograpic evidence of these claims that you
are willing to share with us? If not, your statements will fall on
deaf ears.
Norm Cabana
On 1 Jan 1999 23:52:04 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>You need to check out the version of the car you are modeling For instance,
>the team cars for '69 use a different shape of windshield, the intake do not
>get siamesed at the top, the front wheels are completely wrong, the shape of
>the engine block at the belhousing is wrong, the heads are an abortion. the
>tire tread is wrong, the engraving is below the Granf Sport kit, need I go
>further.
>
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: d3eubanks@aol.com (D3Eubanks)
Date: 2 Jan 1999 04:34:49 GMT
>You need to check out the version of the car you are modeling
Yep! Did that. and got a couple of shots of the Denny Hulme car right here to
make sure I was seeing what I thought I was seeing.
>For instance,
>the team cars for '69 use a different shape
>of windshield,
Yep ... the AM kit reflects this difference ... at least the one I opened does.
>the intake do not get siamesed at the top,
can't comment ... seen 'em both ways, could be they were different race to
race? Maybe AM's research was done on a restored car? Who knows ... it's an
easy enuff fix.
> the front wheels are completely wrong,
The kit wheels seem to match the wheels in the photos I'm starin' at.
> the shape of the engine block at the
> belhousing is wrong,
dunno ... don't get much chance to examine Can Am big blocks. I know they were
not stock blocks.
> the heads are an abortion.
I think they'll be adequate, Keith. There isn't much to see on a cylinder head
once they're installed and covered with bodywork.
> the tire tread is wrong,
could well be. Only picture I can find of a tire on a M8B is showin' me a
slick.
> the engraving is below the Granf Sport kit,
VERY subjective point. It's your opinion; I don't agree.
> need I go further.
Only if you want to ... you ain't convinced me that you're even looking at the
same kit.
>
>Keith
So much time and so little to do .....
Dean
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 23:40:50 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> Keith,
>
> Have you seen the Tamiya 1/18th McLaren kit? Talk about crude and
> inaccurate. I'm sure if they produced a new kit it would be much better,
> but until they do AM is the source. I'm been very satisfied with their
> automotive subjects and hope the continue to produce more.
The was one other B. MPC did it in 1/20 before they did the D.
> I agree the 1/18 Tamiya's were crude, that is why I sold mine. But,
> comparing the AM kit to Tamiya Porsche 956, Jaguar XJR-9LM, plus others in the
> LeMans racing series, there is no comparison . The AM guys seem to build good
> airplanes but apparently do not have much experience with automobiles..
I've built dozens of Tamiya cars and have been underwhelmed many times.
For example, I didn't think much of the visible screw heads on the then
$40 Honda RA 272 or the countless kits with translucent decals that
after hours of work essentially ruined the whole kit. My appetite for
kits far exceeds the meager Tamiya Le Mans series offerings. None of the
flaws that have been mentioned for the AM McLaren will distract me in the
least.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael Stucker)
Date: 2 Jan 1999 17:35:21 GMT
In article <368d7bc3.1321263@news.direcpc.com>, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com
says...
>You do, of course, have photograpic evidence of these claims that you
>are willing to share with us? If not, your statements will fall on
>deaf ears.
>>You need to check out the version of the car you are modeling For instance,
>>the team cars for '69 use a different shape of windshield, the intake do not
>>get siamesed at the top, the front wheels are completely wrong, the shape
>>of
>>the engine block at the belhousing is wrong, the heads are an abortion. the
>>tire tread is wrong, the engraving is below the Granf Sport kit, need I go
>>further.
I've heard that AM checked out an existing M8B made from parts that is vintage
raced. Its possible that this car is not historically correct and they didn't
check against photos from 1969. Its also possible that the model represents a
specific car at a specific race which Keith has no documentation for.
Just throwing out theories as I, unfortunately, haven't seen a kit yet to
really check anything on my own.
--
Michael Stucker | Anadrill Schlumberger, Sugar Land, Texas
stucker$@sugar-land.spc.slb.com | Definately not Anadrill's opinion.
Remove "$" from email address above. | Copyright Michael J. Stucker 1999
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 13:36:23 -0500
stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael Stucker) wrote:
> I've heard that AM checked out an existing M8B made from parts that is
vintage
> raced. Its possible that this car is not historically correct and they
didn't
> check against photos from 1969. Its also possible that the model
represents a
> specific car at a specific race which Keith has no documentation for.
>
> Just throwing out theories as I, unfortunately, haven't seen a kit yet to
> really check anything on my own.
Considering that AM is in the business of highly detailed historic
aircraft I doubt they used the one as their only source.
They looked at a M8B built from parts, but that doesn't mean they didn't
also check out one or both of the surviving but not intact examples,
or that the restored car wasn't itself exhaustivly researched, documented
and replicated when it was assembled, as is the trend in the restoration
business. The car in question was assembled with authentic McLaren bits
by a former Can Am mechanic who is in the vintage race car restoration
business. Plus there were customer versions some of which are still in
original configuration and one or two owned by their original owners.
The specific differences between the works and customer cars were well
known long ago leaving just the differences to be verified and there was
plenty of sources for doing so available.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 3 Jan 1999 01:02:16 GMT
>Keith,
>
>You do, of course, have photograpic evidence of these claims that you
>are willing to share with us? If not, your statements will fall on
>deaf ears.
>
>Norm Cabana
Check out the book "CAN-AM" by Pete Lyons. It has many photos of the M8B team
cars.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 3 Jan 1999 01:24:52 GMT
>'ve built dozens of Tamiya cars and have been underwhelmed many times.
>For example, I didn't think much of the visible screw heads on the then
>$40 Honda RA 272 or the countless kits with translucent decals that
>after hours of work essentially ruined the whole kit. My appetite for
>kits far exceeds the meager Tamiya Le Mans series offerings. None of the
>flaws that have been mentioned for the AM McLaren will distract me in the
>least.
>
>Tom
Tom,
If you paid $40 for the RA272 you were taken I paid $16 for mine. But, I only
bought it for the tires. I looked at mine and discovered why you were
underwhelmed by the visible screw heads, rhese are supposed to be rivets. You
bring another complaint of the AM kit to mind. Check out the tranaxel. The
bolt heads scale to about 1" and the tool designer goofed and put gear housing
on the left side of the box instead of being in the the right side where it
should be.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 21:02:16 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
I wrote:
> >'ve built dozens of Tamiya cars and have been underwhelmed many times.
> >For example, I didn't think much of the visible screw heads on the then
> >$40 Honda RA 272 or the countless kits with translucent decals that
> >after hours of work essentially ruined the whole kit. My appetite for
> >kits far exceeds the meager Tamiya Le Mans series offerings. None of the
> >flaws that have been mentioned for the AM McLaren will distract me in the
> >least.
> Tom,
> If you paid $40 for the RA272 you were taken I paid $16 for mine. But, I only
> bought it for the tires. I looked at mine and discovered why you were
> underwhelmed by the visible screw heads, rhese are supposed to be rivets. You
> bring another complaint of the AM kit to mind. Check out the tranaxel. The
> bolt heads scale to about 1" and the tool designer goofed and put gear housing
> on the left side of the box instead of being in the the right side where it
> should be.
I didn't pay $40 for mine but that was the US suggested retial price when it
came out. After the US price drop I think they now retail for $25, and of
course
some shops discount and/or buy them for less through Japan, bypassing Tamiya
USA and passing the savings on.
That's one mother of a rivet! Scales up to about 1 1/4 inches wide.
None of my reference sources show it. Every reviewer and modeler
I know who built it mentioned it. Mini Exotics even sold replacements
without the hole.
Dunno about the transaxle bolts. How big should they be? I don't have
a Can Am McLaren handy and my M8B photos haven't been returned yet.
1" nuts don't seem to be unreasonable if you are talking about
what I think you are..
Nothing you've mentioned will be visible when I assemble mine. It still
looks like a great deal to me.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 04:43:13 GMT
Keith,
I have the book and have been going through it with magnifying lenses
on trying to ascertain the detail flaws you indicate. There is ONE
picture of Lothar M's car and nothing of the configuration of the car
can be definitively determined. There is ONE color picture of Oscar
Kovaleski's car driven by Tony A that is blurry and provides virtually
no detail clues. I have not been able to find any pictures in the
book showing any McLarens of any year with the siamesed intake
trumpets. However, on Tom Hiett's web site there are several pictures
of an M8B vintage racer that DOES have the siamesed trumpets. Error
on the part of AM? Who knows? I may just turn some aluminum tubing
to make the parts I want. I do know that some of their colors are
wrong but what the heck, I can solve that problem quick enough.
Now, what is wrong with the wheels? You say they are wrong, but what
is wrong. You say the tires are wrong, but what is wrong? Granted
they look like rain tires, but these cars DID run in the rain.
If you are going to tell us that something is wrong, tell us in
detail.
Norm Cabana
On 3 Jan 1999 01:02:16 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>>Keith,
>>
>>You do, of course, have photograpic evidence of these claims that you
>>are willing to share with us? If not, your statements will fall on
>>deaf ears.
>>
>>Norm Cabana
>
>Check out the book "CAN-AM" by Pete Lyons. It has many photos of the M8B team
>cars.
>
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 00:01:39 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Keith,
>
> I have the book and have been going through it with magnifying lenses
> on trying to ascertain the detail flaws you indicate. There is ONE
> picture of Lothar M's car and nothing of the configuration of the car
> can be definitively determined. There is ONE color picture of Oscar
> Kovaleski's car driven by Tony A that is blurry and provides virtually
> no detail clues. I have not been able to find any pictures in the
> book showing any McLarens of any year with the siamesed intake
> trumpets. However, on Tom Hiett's web site there are several pictures
> of an M8B vintage racer that DOES have the siamesed trumpets. Error
> on the part of AM? Who knows? I may just turn some aluminum tubing
> to make the parts I want. I do know that some of their colors are
> wrong but what the heck, I can solve that problem quick enough.
>
> Now, what is wrong with the wheels? You say they are wrong, but what
> is wrong. You say the tires are wrong, but what is wrong? Granted
> they look like rain tires, but these cars DID run in the rain.
>
> If you are going to tell us that something is wrong, tell us in
> detail.
There were three M8Bs, according to Paul Hunter, Bruce McLaren's nephew.
Picking out all their differences over their lives as racecars could take
a lot of time.
Denny's M8B-1 became the M8D development car and was dismantled at
the end of that season. I'm assuming this is the one in which his
fatal accident happened.
Bruce's car M8B-2 was sold to Oscar Kovelski. It is the burned car
but is being restored.
The third M8B Team Car was the updated M8A-2 which had been driven
by Denny in 1968. It became the "B" development car then the
team spare for 1969. This car was sold to Lothar Motschenbacher.
This car is now in the hands of The Bruce McLaren Trust in NZ and is
being fully restored.
So.... Looks like the third car had quite a life, as a A, a B and
as a privateer car. Chaparrals have similar interesting reincarnations.
Trying to find out which one Gurney drove (I assume the second one)
and where the first one is located.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 05:28:51 GMT
Michael,
I've heard the same info as you and probably from the same source. I
have all three kits (Yesssss!!!) and the 69 kit is the factory McLaren
M8B. Lothar M's car is modeled during the 1970 racing year and would
be the 1969 factory cars that were sold to independents. Oscar
Kovaleski's car is for the 1971 racing season. If there is anything
that immediately appears to be wrong, it is with Oscar K's car. On
the box top it shows the car with the staggered intake trumpets and in
the kit it has the same trumpets as the other kits. Minor problem IF
you can find evidence that this particular car had staggered trumpets.
I think I know what Keith is complaining about with regards to the
front wheels. From all photographic evidence I've seen so far, the
front wheels had much more of a dished or offset appearance than is
shown with the kit. This can be handled with a little modeling
ingenuity I'm sure. His complaint with regards to the engine and bell
housing etc. I'll have to check out as I build the kits.
There is one other glaring error with regards to the kits and that is
in regards to the colors of several items. The transaxles would
certainly be dark aluminum as indicated in the instructions, but the
engines would have been normal aluminum and the valve covers would
have been either dark aluminum or magnesium. The instructions call
for these items to be painted semi-gloss black, which is wrong.
You are absolutely correct when you say these cars might have been
modeled to represent a specific car at a specific race. I just don't
know which one it would be. These were working race cars and as such,
changed from race to race. Different things were tried and maybe
adopted or rejected. I know that there were races where one car had
a 430 ci engine and the other might have a 465 ci or larger engine.
Very, very difficult to determine this almost 30 years after the fact.
I do have a complaint about these kits from AM. They did a RM in that
the plastic is the same for all three, but the decals are different
and the paint schemes have been documented. It's a great business
move, but from the modelers point of view, it leaves something to be
desired. From my point of view, I would rather have seen the 69 M8B
factory cars be done completely and simple modification packs be
produced to change the originals into the other cars.
Thanks for your reply.
Norm Cabana
On 2 Jan 1999 17:35:21 GMT, stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael
Stucker) wrote:
>I've heard that AM checked out an existing M8B made from parts that is vintage
>raced. Its possible that this car is not historically correct and they didn't
>check against photos from 1969. Its also possible that the model represents a
>specific car at a specific race which Keith has no documentation for.
>
>Just throwing out theories as I, unfortunately, haven't seen a kit yet to
>really check anything on my own.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 09:48:55 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Michael,
>
> I've heard the same info as you and probably from the same source. I
> have all three kits (Yesssss!!!) and the 69 kit is the factory McLaren
> M8B. Lothar M's car is modeled during the 1970 racing year and would
> be the 1969 factory cars that were sold to independents. Oscar
> Kovaleski's car is for the 1971 racing season. If there is anything
> that immediately appears to be wrong, it is with Oscar K's car. On
> the box top it shows the car with the staggered intake trumpets and in
> the kit it has the same trumpets as the other kits. Minor problem IF
> you can find evidence that this particular car had staggered trumpets.
From Paul Hunter, Bruce McLaren's nephew:
Bruce's car M8B-2 was sold to Oscar Kovelski, this car was subsequently on
sold and suffered fire damaged in an accident. This car is still in storage
with the owners and the Trust is assisting with the restoration.
Denny's M8B-1 became the M8D development car and was dismantled at the end
of that season. I'm guess in this is the one from the fatal accident.
Lothar Motschenbacher's car was the revised M8A-2 car driven by Denny
in 1968 before becoming the B development car, then the team spare
for 1969, then sold to Motschenbacher. This car is now in the hands of The
Bruce McLaren Trust in NZ and is being fully restored.
> There is one other glaring error with regards to the kits and that is
> in regards to the colors of several items. The transaxles would
> certainly be dark aluminum as indicated in the instructions, but the
> engines would have been normal aluminum and the valve covers would
> have been either dark aluminum or magnesium. The instructions call
> for these items to be painted semi-gloss black, which is wrong.
I'm pretty sure most of the McLarens I've seen as well as most of the
vintage photos I've seen have semi gloss black engines and transaxles.
I'll look.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael Stucker)
Date: 3 Jan 1999 15:55:28 GMT
In article <76llcq$cfu$5@ohnasn01.houston.omnes.net>,
stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com says...
OK, I finally found two of the McLarens at Texas Model trends in Houston.
Bought a Team McLaren model but not the AutoWorld version. Kit looks, well,
detailed . :-) No photoetch but there are soft vinyl parts for hoses and
wires.
The only "error" that I found is that I think the windshield is not correct. I
don't have good pictures of all the Team cars at every race, but I think the
passenger side of the windshield should be flatter and then ramp up to driver
side.
The only hinge included for the doors is a"piano hinge", which I assume is
basically a piece of tape from what I can see in the packages. Don't care for
that. Also, the instructions imply that if you put all the vinyl parts on the
model, the body panels will not close.
--
Michael Stucker | Anadrill Schlumberger, Sugar Land, Texas
stucker$@sugar-land.spc.slb.com | Definately not Anadrill's opinion.
Remove "$" from email address above. | Copyright Michael J. Stucker 1999
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: PSC <pchalmer@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 10:14:14 -0800
Guys;
How about enumerating the "fixes" which are needed to improve the kit(s)
after you've gotten into building them ? How about a build review on one
of the webzines ?
How about addressing your questions about specific kit configuration to
the AM webpage ?
Not being a "car guy" and knowing very little about McLarens but
somewhat more about the folks at AM and Bill Bosworth, I would say:
1. All kits have compromises for economic and technical (limits of
injection-molding) reasons.
2. No kits are perfect - there are always errors of omission /
commission / scale in such areas as rivet size.
3. The AM car kits are very much labors of love on BB's part - and the
research was pretty thorough - and went beyond "published" sources, to
include contact with the current McLaren organization and some of the
folks originally involved.
4. A good modeller can improve on even the best of kits.
Finally, AM welcomes constructive criticism - they would like to know
what you want in future car kits - obviously, the "classic" racers of
the sports / can-am era are favorites. Talk to them !
http://www.accurateminiatures.com/
Pete Chalmers
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 23:39:43 GMT
On Sun, 03 Jan 1999 09:48:55 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
Tom,
Well if they are painted semi-gloss black, it doesn't show it in the
photos I've seen in Lyons book.
The M8B used a Hewland LG500 transaxle that was made of magnesium.
Magnesium castings get a rather dark color as they age and oxidize.
Referencing Peter Lyons book Can-Am, on page 62 there is an excellent
shot of a mech working on an all aluminum Chevy big-block. I can't be
sure, but it looks like the dry sump housing is also magnesium.
Noting the tone of aluminum in a black and white photo, you can see on
page 76 that the heads and what little of the block you can see are
the same aluminum color and the bell housing and transaxle are much
darker. The problem is in what semi-gloss black looks like in a b&w
photo.
On page 179, there is a very detailed shot of the back end of an M8F
and you can tell that the brace that goes over the back of transaxle,
which mounts the coilovers is a much darker color than the transaxle.
It looks pretty close to the tone/color of the radiators and the
center of the steering wheel, which are in fact black.
This has been a large consumption of time for me. Next time there is
a discussion like this, I will stay out of it and build the dang thing
the way I want too. :-)
Can't wait to get them finished.
Norm
>> There is one other glaring error with regards to the kits and that is
>> in regards to the colors of several items. The transaxles would
>> certainly be dark aluminum as indicated in the instructions, but the
>> engines would have been normal aluminum and the valve covers would
>> have been either dark aluminum or magnesium. The instructions call
>> for these items to be painted semi-gloss black, which is wrong.
>
>I'm pretty sure most of the McLarens I've seen as well as most of the
>vintage photos I've seen have semi gloss black engines and transaxles.
>I'll look.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 4 Jan 1999 01:27:18 GMT
>Dunno about the transaxle bolts. How big should they be? I don't have
>a Can Am McLaren handy and my M8B photos haven't been returned yet.
>1" nuts don't seem to be unreasonable if you are talking about
>what I think you are..
>
>Nothing you've mentioned will be visible when I assemble mine. It still
>looks like a great deal to me.
>
>Tom
>
>--
>Tom Hiett
>Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
>Check out my vintage race pics at:
>http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
>
Tom none of the bolts or nuts on the transaxel are larger 1/2" accross the
flats. Yhe realy unsightly thing is that on the rear cover the the studs and
nuts run through ears that are way oversized. As far as being not visible, why
not build a curbside?
I have give up complaining and have started to correct the problem:
New head castings from revell L-88
Cast new transaxel based on the MPC Eagle
Remold the tires with proper tread
Cast the roll bar and mirrors in pollished pewter
Replace the radius arns with thinwall stainless
Heim joints spark plugs and boots from RB Motiom
New vacuformed windshield.
Good luck with yours
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 4 Jan 1999 01:41:14 GMT
>Keith,
>
>I have the book and have been going through it with magnifying lenses
>on trying to ascertain the detail flaws you indicate. There is ONE
>picture of Lothar M's car and nothing of the configuration of the car
>can be definitively determined. There is ONE color picture of Oscar
>Kovaleski's car driven by Tony A that is blurry and provides virtually
>no detail clues. I have not been able to find any pictures in the
>book showing any McLarens of any year with the siamesed intake
>trumpets. However, on Tom Hiett's web site there are several pictures
>of an M8B vintage racer that DOES have the siamesed trumpets. Error
>on the part of AM? Who knows? I may just turn some aluminum tubing
>to make the parts I want. I do know that some of their colors are
>wrong but what the heck, I can solve that problem quick enough.
>
>Now, what is wrong with the wheels? You say they are wrong, but what
>is wrong. You say the tires are wrong, but what is wrong? Granted
>they look like rain tires, but these cars DID run in the rain.
>
>If you are going to tell us that something is wrong, tell us in
>detail.
>
>Norm Cabana
The fron wheel spokes are crudely thick, My solution will be to recast the
rear wheel to also be used on the front, along with turned aluminum trim rings.
The front tires are a pattern used by Firestone in '66 and '67. The proper
tread should be the type used on MPC's M8A and M8D. The rear tires started out
the '69 season with the same tread as the front but slicks soon cam into use so
either option would work.
The devil is in the details
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 4 Jan 1999 01:47:13 GMT
Norm,
One other paint issue that crops up is the color of the tub. The
instrustruction call for a silver color for the complete tub. However, the
floor of the tub and the sides were made from Magnesium, therefore, they should
be darker than the top and seating area.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 21:35:58 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> Tom none of the bolts or nuts on the transaxel are larger 1/2" accross the
> flats. Yhe realy unsightly thing is that on the rear cover the the studs and
> nuts run through ears that are way oversized. As far as being not visible,
> why not build a curbside?
I expected big manly bolts to handle big manly horsepower!
I'll build it like my others. If I enjoy it and it looks nice, its
a success. I don't get stressed out over this stuff. But thanks for
your comments anyway.
> I have give up complaining and have started to correct the problem:
> New head castings from revell L-88
> Cast new transaxel based on the MPC Eagle
> Remold the tires with proper tread
> Cast the roll bar and mirrors in pollished pewter
> Replace the radius arns with thinwall stainless
> Heim joints spark plugs and boots from RB Motiom
> New vacuformed windshield.
Why not wait until the aftermarket stuff is ready? Cody Grayland
announced a detail set a few months ago and I wouldn't be surprized
if someone like Mini Exotics doesn't cast some nicer bits like they
have done before with other kits.
> Good luck with yours
Thanks.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 04:00:26 GMT
On 4 Jan 1999 01:41:14 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
Keith,
I'll probably do something similar with regards to the front wheels.
I wish we had better photos. In Lyons book there are side shots of
gobs of different cars in the races, but of course the McLarens are
not one of these. There is one good shot of the front wheels on the B
when they were testing at Goodwood. Of course, I can't be sure that
these weren't just hack wheels for the testing. There is a color shot
of a D that shows the front wheels but they look different from the B.
They are clearly magnesium and the spokes don't look machined and the
rim isn't polished. I do think that the hub nut in the model is too
large, but I'll work on that. The tires are simple, chuck them in a
holder and sand the tread off and turn them into slicks.
Happy modeling.
Norm
>The fron wheel spokes are crudely thick, My solution will be to recast the
>rear wheel to also be used on the front, along with turned aluminum trim rings.
> The front tires are a pattern used by Firestone in '66 and '67. The proper
>tread should be the type used on MPC's M8A and M8D. The rear tires started out
>the '69 season with the same tread as the front but slicks soon cam into use so
>either option would work.
>
>The devil is in the details
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 04:07:16 GMT
On 4 Jan 1999 01:27:18 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
Keith,
Being a former aircraft mechanic and being familiar with the type of
hardware that would be used in this kind of application (AN grade),
the nuts will probably be 9/16 to 3/4 depending upon where they are
employed and they would be cadmium plated with cadmium plated washers
Regarding your list, why not just buy the LG500 transaxle from
MiniExotics? Where are you getting your heim joints and plug boots?
Norm
>Tom none of the bolts or nuts on the transaxel are larger 1/2" accross the
>flats. Yhe realy unsightly thing is that on the rear cover the the studs and
>nuts run through ears that are way oversized. As far as being not visible, why
>not build a curbside?
>
>I have give up complaining and have started to correct the problem:
> New head castings from revell L-88
> Cast new transaxel based on the MPC Eagle
> Remold the tires with proper tread
> Cast the roll bar and mirrors in pollished pewter
> Replace the radius arns with thinwall stainless
> Heim joints spark plugs and boots from RB Motiom
> New vacuformed windshield.
>
>Good luck with yours
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: jom@ihug.co.nz (Jo Martin)
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 10:30:49 GMT
On Sun, 03 Jan 1999 23:39:43 GMT, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm
Cabana) wrote:
>Well if they are painted semi-gloss black, it doesn't show it in the
>photos I've seen in Lyons book.
>
>The M8B used a Hewland LG500 transaxle that was made of magnesium.
>Magnesium castings get a rather dark color as they age and oxidize.
>
My dim, and distant memory of the bigger Hewland gearboxes was that
they were usually painted crackle finish black - for some reason the
small (Beetle cased, magnesium) Mk8/9 was never painted; but I don't
remember an unpainted box that Hewland cast the case for themselves
(as the other boxes were).
By the way, did you know that LG stands for "Large Gearbox"? Mike
Hewland had a sense of humour when it came to naming them. DG was
"Different Gearbox". I''ll leave FG to your imagination......
Jo
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: d2kos@aol.com (D2Kos)
Date: 4 Jan 1999 18:19:25 GMT
Do you guys realize how nit-picky you must sound to the producers of this kit?
I'm sure they've invested lots of dollars and time to bring these to us, and
all we have to say is "the nuts are a bit too large (even though they are
hidden most of the time), and the tire tread is all wrong".
Be thankful for what you get, or you'll be making the next CanAm car out of a
block of balsa, all by yourself.
Kos
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: d2kos@aol.com (D2Kos)
Date: 4 Jan 1999 18:20:45 GMT
>I'll build it like my others. If I enjoy it and it looks nice, its
>a success. I don't get stressed out over this stuff.
Now here's a man with the right attitude. Model to please yourself, and not
the "other experts".
Kos
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: Rodney Noriel <rbn@corp.cirrus.com>
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:12:20 -0800
All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
My suggestions would be:
Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
Championship F1 Car
Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
we'd like them...lots of detail.
Rodney
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: "Shaun Crist" <cristd@nospamwf.quik.com>
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 01:21:33 GMT
Rodney,
I'd vote for a Lola or Chaparral. I'd also like to see a GTP Chevy
Intrepid. I've got one of the Grand Sports and ordered two of the
McLarens. I just hope they keep it up.
Shaun Crist
Rodney Noriel <rbn@corp.cirrus.com> wrote in article
<36913CC4.7B73@corp.cirrus.com>...
> All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
> has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
> considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
>
> Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
>
> My suggestions would be:
>
> Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
> Championship F1 Car
> Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
>
> Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
> they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
> will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
> and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
> we'd like them...lots of detail.
>
>
> Rodney
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 5 Jan 1999 02:46:24 GMT
>Regarding your list, why not just buy the LG500 transaxle from
>MiniExotics? Where are you getting your heim joints and plug boots?
Norm,
RB Motion makes this stuff, and it great. They are costly, but each piece is
made by hand one at a time. He uses a microscope on his lathe and milling
machine. He makes hex nuts as small as .025" and bolts with a hex of .020
with a stem dia. of .014. He also makes some nice coil over shocks, plus other
things.
RB Motion
P.O Box 47
Bryon, Ohio 43508
(419) 636-0139
Keith
The devil is in the detail
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 05:50:34 GMT
Keith,
What is your reference for this? I'm not doubting you, just want to
see for myself. I haven't read all the text in Lyons book so it may
be there, but I haven't seen anything in the photos that would
indicate this
On 4 Jan 1999 01:47:13 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>Norm,
>
>One other paint issue that crops up is the color of the tub. The
>instrustruction call for a silver color for the complete tub. However, the
>floor of the tub and the sides were made from Magnesium, therefore, they should
>be darker than the top and seating area.
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 05:59:23 GMT
Keith,
You've just hit upon one of my pet peeves with modern modeling. I
guess if I was going for competition level modeling I MIGHT consider
buying this stuff (i.e. nuts and bolts and heim joints etc.) but for a
model that will either be built as a kit review or as a personal sit
on the shelf model, I can't see spending the money for this. Now, if
I had the capabilities of doing this type of work myself, then I would
do it in a heartbeat. This is a personal thing so don't let my
comments disuade you from using these things. I will send a letter to
RB Motion and get a catalog though. Never know when it might come in
handy
Norm
PS, your tag line is quite true!
On 5 Jan 1999 02:46:24 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>>Regarding your list, why not just buy the LG500 transaxle from
>>MiniExotics? Where are you getting your heim joints and plug boots?
>
>Norm,
>
>RB Motion makes this stuff, and it great. They are costly, but each piece is
>made by hand one at a time. He uses a microscope on his lathe and milling
>machine. He makes hex nuts as small as .025" and bolts with a hex of .020
>with a stem dia. of .014. He also makes some nice coil over shocks, plus other
>things.
>
>RB Motion
>P.O Box 47
>Bryon, Ohio 43508
>(419) 636-0139
>
>Keith
>
>The devil is in the detail
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 06:34:45 GMT
Rodney,
I'm sure that AM would love to have your input. Please go to their
web site and tell them what you, as a customer, would be willing to
spend money on. They ARE a business and as such, pay very close
attention to what their paying customers want. I am for any and all
Can-Am cars and LeMans Racers of that period. However, I could get
them to produce just one vehicle, it would absolutely have to be Dan
Gurneys AAR F1 Gurney Weslake that he won the F1 race in. It is an
historically significant car because it is the only American made and
American driven car to win a Formula One event.
Norm Cabana
On Mon, 04 Jan 1999 14:12:20 -0800, Rodney Noriel
<rbn@corp.cirrus.com> wrote:
>All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
>has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
>considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
>
>Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
>
>My suggestions would be:
>
>Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
>Championship F1 Car
>Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
>
>Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
>they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
>will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
>and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
>we'd like them...lots of detail.
>
>
>Rodney
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 06:37:07 GMT
Shaun,
Besides the Can-Am cars, I agree with you. I'd like to see the GTP
cars modeled. I would love to see the Fiero GTP and Corvette GTPs.
Matter of fact, I'd like to see someone do the GTO and GTU IMSA
versions of the Fieros from the 1980s.
Let AM know what you want.
Norm Cabana
On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 01:21:33 GMT, "Shaun Crist"
<cristd@nospamwf.quik.com> wrote:
>Rodney,
>
>I'd vote for a Lola or Chaparral. I'd also like to see a GTP Chevy
>Intrepid. I've got one of the Grand Sports and ordered two of the
>McLarens. I just hope they keep it up.
>
>Shaun Crist
>
>Rodney Noriel <rbn@corp.cirrus.com> wrote in article
><36913CC4.7B73@corp.cirrus.com>...
>> All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
>> has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
>> considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
>>
>> Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
>>
>> My suggestions would be:
>>
>> Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
>> Championship F1 Car
>> Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
>>
>> Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
>> they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
>> will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
>> and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
>> we'd like them...lots of detail.
>>
>>
>> Rodney
>>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 07:00:40 GMT
Be thankful for what I get? Thankful??? What is this crap? I'm not
some 10 year old kid that has to listen to this kind of drivel just
because their parents want to feed them a guilty line of s**t! I paid
good hard earned cash for the three AM kits I got. I , and MANY
others, have been waiting months for these things to come out. If AM
had given me these things, then yes, I would indeed accept the gift
without adverse comment.
HOWEVER, AM is asking a fairly high price for these things and since I
paid a good $10 more per kit than I did for the GS cars, I expect the
quality to be equal or better. It isn't. These are damn nice kits,
kits with tons of potential, but they are damn nice kits with flaws.
The discussions here about these flaws are good for AM. Yes, we are
picking nits (nits are tasty little buggers if they're cooked right!)
but AM is getting feedback from experienced modelers as well. If AM
fails to heed the comments made here and elsewhere, then they will
have no one else to blame when this portion of their business suffers.
Tamiya didn't get to where it is because it produced crap and told
it's customers to be "thankful" I've got a feeling Accurate
Minatures won't fall into the same trap as the other American model
companies did.
As one old time modeler friend once said to me, "Just because it won't
be seen, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done right. I'll know it's
there and that's what counts!" Wise man, my friend!
Norm Cabana
On 4 Jan 1999 18:19:25 GMT, d2kos@aol.com (D2Kos) wrote:
>Do you guys realize how nit-picky you must sound to the producers of this kit?
>I'm sure they've invested lots of dollars and time to bring these to us, and
>all we have to say is "the nuts are a bit too large (even though they are
>hidden most of the time), and the tire tread is all wrong".
>
>Be thankful for what you get, or you'll be making the next CanAm car out of a
>block of balsa, all by yourself.
>
>Kos
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: Adrian Bruce <adrian@rinc.or.jp>
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:51:02 +0900
Norm Cabana wrote:
>
> Rodney,
>
> I am for any and all Can-Am cars and LeMans Racers of that period.
I second that. Have the AM kit, and I'd love the Can-Am UOP shadows,
917/10 ( I do have a 1/24 resin of it though )and a 917/30 to go with
a le mans 1/24 scale 917LM (the year after the pop porsche, which you
can get in resin ) and a 917/20 pink pig from Le Mans. ( I do have
2 x 1/43 can-am shadows, M-20 and the 917LM and 917/20 , but 1/43 is
too small, and tough on the eyes! )
Something magical about 1969 to 1973 Can-Am and Le Mans for some
reason...
probably just the shear power of these cars..
--
Adrian Bruce adrian@rinc.or.jp
SF2D&I http://www.rinc.or.jp/~adrian/
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 09:03:36 -0500
adrian@rinc.or.jp wrote:
> I second that. Have the AM kit, and I'd love the Can-Am UOP shadows,
> 917/10 ( I do have a 1/24 resin of it though )and a 917/30 to go with
The 1/24 scale resin Fisher kit of the 917/30 should be out now.
I saw it in August.
> a le mans 1/24 scale 917LM (the year after the pop porsche, which you
> can get in resin ) and a 917/20 pink pig from Le Mans.
'70 and '71 917 Langhecks of all variations are available by Fisher.
A 917/20 pink pig is promised for 1999. Just finishing up a '71 Martini
917 LH.
http://www.fishermodels.com/
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 6 Jan 1999 00:18:08 GMT
>Keith,
>
>What is your reference for this? I'm not doubting you, just want to
>see for myself. I haven't read all the text in Lyons book so it may
>be there, but I haven't seen anything in the photos that would
>indicate this
>On 4 Jan 1999 01:47:13 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>
>>Norm,
>>
>>One other paint issue that crops up is the color of the tub. The
>>instrustruction call for a silver color for the complete tub. However, the
>>floor of the tub and the sides were made from Magnesium, therefore, they
>should
>>be darker than the top and seating area.
>>Keith
>
Norm, found this information in an old mag called cars in profile. I was
published in England. I forgot to point out that this may only apply to the
team cars. You can tell the difference on the tub area that shows behind the
front wheel on some of the shots in the Lyons book.
Keith.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 6 Jan 1999 00:26:13 GMT
>haun,
>
>Besides the Can-Am cars, I agree with you. I'd like to see the GTP
>cars modeled. I would love to see the Fiero GTP and Corvette GTPs.
>Matter of fact, I'd like to see someone do the GTO and GTU IMSA
>versions of the Fieros from the 1980s.
>
>Let AM know what you want.
>
>Norm Cabana
>
>On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 01:21:33 GMT, "Shaun Crist"
><cristd@nospamwf.quik.com> wrote:
>
>>Rodney,
>>
>>I'd vote for a Lola or Chaparral. I'd also like to see a GTP Chevy
>>Intrepid. I've got one of the Grand Sports and ordered two of the
>>McLarens. I just hope they keep it up.
>>
>>Shaun Crist
>>
>>Rodney Noriel <rbn@corp.cirrus.com> wrote in article
>><36913CC4.7B73@corp.cirrus.com>...
>>> All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
>>> has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
>>> considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
>>>
>>> Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
>>>
>>> My suggestions would be:
>>>
>>> Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
>>> Championship F1 Car
>>> Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
>>>
>>> Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
>>> they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
>>> will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
>>> and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
>>> we'd like them...lots of detail.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rodney
>>>
Besides these there are too cars that were so far ahead of there time that the
designs they spawned lasted decades. These are the original Lola coupe that
John Mecom ran with the Grand Sport Corvettes in Nassau, and the Lola T600
Chevy coupe that eliminated the Porches in IMSA, and never finished a race in a
position less than second place. I find it amazing that these have never been
sone in 1/24 or 1/25.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:24:18 GMT
Jo,
Thanks for this info. I still say they don't look black, but if you
are sure.....
What I thought strange about the Hewland boxes was rating the
gearboxes by the horsepower they were supposed to be able to handle,
LG500 = 500 HP LG600 = 600 HP. Did they ever produce an LG1000?
Do you live in New Zealand?
Norm
On Mon, 04 Jan 1999 10:30:49 GMT, jom@ihug.co.nz (Jo Martin) wrote:
>On Sun, 03 Jan 1999 23:39:43 GMT, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm
>Cabana) wrote:
>
>
>>Well if they are painted semi-gloss black, it doesn't show it in the
>>photos I've seen in Lyons book.
>>
>>The M8B used a Hewland LG500 transaxle that was made of magnesium.
>>Magnesium castings get a rather dark color as they age and oxidize.
>>
>My dim, and distant memory of the bigger Hewland gearboxes was that
>they were usually painted crackle finish black - for some reason the
>small (Beetle cased, magnesium) Mk8/9 was never painted; but I don't
>remember an unpainted box that Hewland cast the case for themselves
>(as the other boxes were).
> By the way, did you know that LG stands for "Large Gearbox"? Mike
>Hewland had a sense of humour when it came to naming them. DG was
>"Different Gearbox". I''ll leave FG to your imagination......
>
>
>Jo
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:28:13 GMT
Pete,
You bring up some good points. I have sent messages to AM with my
comments BEFORE the kits came out. I will send them comments after I
do my first buildup
Norm
On Sun, 03 Jan 1999 10:14:14 -0800, PSC <pchalmer@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
>Guys;
>
>How about enumerating the "fixes" which are needed to improve the kit(s)
>after you've gotten into building them ? How about a build review on one
>of the webzines ?
>
>How about addressing your questions about specific kit configuration to
>the AM webpage ?
>
>Not being a "car guy" and knowing very little about McLarens but
>somewhat more about the folks at AM and Bill Bosworth, I would say:
>
>1. All kits have compromises for economic and technical (limits of
>injection-molding) reasons.
>
>2. No kits are perfect - there are always errors of omission /
>commission / scale in such areas as rivet size.
>
>3. The AM car kits are very much labors of love on BB's part - and the
>research was pretty thorough - and went beyond "published" sources, to
>include contact with the current McLaren organization and some of the
>folks originally involved.
>
>4. A good modeller can improve on even the best of kits.
>
>Finally, AM welcomes constructive criticism - they would like to know
>what you want in future car kits - obviously, the "classic" racers of
>the sports / can-am era are favorites. Talk to them !
>
>http://www.accurateminiatures.com/
>
>Pete Chalmers
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:41:42 GMT
Keith,
Eric Broadley's Lola GT I know about and agree with you on. There is
one still in running condition and there are a few books that cover
it. I'd love to have a Lola GT, Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b), Ford
GT40 Mk1 early, Ford GT40 Mk1 late, Ford GT40 MkII early, Ford GT 40
Mk2 late, Ford J car, Ford GT40 Mk IV, The John Wyer variants of the
GT40s, Chaparral 2D early, Chaparral 2D late, Chaparral 2F, Ferrari
330 P4 both coupe and roadster. Just those kits alone in the same
scale and same detail level would make me a very happy man. Now throw
in all the USRRC/Can-Am cars from about 1964 on and I'd be in heaven.
Finally add all the 1960s F-1 cars and I could die a happy man.
Broke, but happy!!
Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
Happy modeling!
Norm
On 6 Jan 1999 00:26:13 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>Besides these there are two cars that were so far ahead of there time that the
>designs they spawned lasted decades. These are the original Lola coupe that
>John Mecom ran with the Grand Sport Corvettes in Nassau, and the Lola T600
>Chevy coupe that eliminated the Porches in IMSA, and never finished a race in a
>position less than second place. I find it amazing that these have never been
>sone in 1/24 or 1/25.
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:50:41 GMT
Adrian,
The Shadows! What a set of cars. They were the most push the limit,
in your face machines that I've ever seen! The first Shadows weren't
much more than Go-Karts with a giant wing and an aluminum big block
for push. I honestly think that the guys that drove those things were
some of the bravest men around.
Can't say I feel the same way about Porches though. The Can-Am
versions were awesome, but I just never got interested in them.
Must agree about the scale comments. As I get older, the scale
numbers just HAVE to get smaller. 1/25 is the absolute limit for me
and if we could get some more stuff in 1/18th I'd be happy.
I was up on the Fisher Models web site last night. If you haven't
seen there stuff, you should take a visit. Very nice resin stuff.
Where in Japan are you located?
Norm
On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 20:51:02 +0900, Adrian Bruce <adrian@rinc.or.jp>
wrote:
>Norm Cabana wrote:
>>
>> Rodney,
>>
>> I am for any and all Can-Am cars and LeMans Racers of that period.
>
>I second that. Have the AM kit, and I'd love the Can-Am UOP shadows,
>917/10 ( I do have a 1/24 resin of it though )and a 917/30 to go with
> a le mans 1/24 scale 917LM (the year after the pop porsche, which you
>can get in resin ) and a 917/20 pink pig from Le Mans. ( I do have
>2 x 1/43 can-am shadows, M-20 and the 917LM and 917/20 , but 1/43 is
>too small, and tough on the eyes! )
>
>Something magical about 1969 to 1973 Can-Am and Le Mans for some
>reason...
>probably just the shear power of these cars..
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 7 Jan 1999 02:30:04 GMT
>Keith,
>
>Eric Broadley's Lola GT I know about and agree with you on. There is one
still in running condition and there are a few books that cover
>it. I'd love to have a Lola GT,
Norm,
These are ( or were) made by:
Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b),- Mini Exotics
Ford GT40 Mk1 early, - Chez Cast I believe
Ford GT40 Mk1 late,- Aurora (reissue)
Ford GT40 MkII early, - Fujimi
Ford GT 40 Mk2 late, - Thunder Vally
Ford J car, - Mini Exotics MPC,
Ford GT40 Mk IV, - MPC,
The John Wyer variants of the GT40s, *Mirage) Mini Exotic, K-Models
Chaparral 2D early, Monogram (reissue)
Chaparral 2D late, Modelers
Chaparral 2F, Modelers & Me
Ferrari 330 P4 both coupe ( Fugimi) and roadster. Creative Miniature Associates
> Just those kits alone in the same
>scale and same detail level would make me a very happy man. Now throw
>in all the USRRC/Can-Am cars from about 1964 on and I'd be in heaven.
>Finally add all the 1960s F-1 cars and I could die a happy man.
>Broke, but happy!!
Get happy
>Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
>Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
The only reference I have about the T600 was a Chevy Power book. This car was
the first to use a tunnel underbody in an envelop body.
I could snail mail you a photocopy.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: lito626@aol.com (Lito626)
Date: 7 Jan 1999 02:51:42 GMT
>Norm,
>These are ( or were) made by:
>Chaparral 2F, Modelers & Me
Is the Modeler's or your Chaparral 2F kit still available?
Larry Litoborski
Lito626@aol.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: snapon.bob@erols.com (Bob Buxbaum)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 03:04:30 GMT
On Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:41:42 GMT, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm
Cabana) wrote:
>Keith,
>
>Eric Broadley's Lola GT I know about and agree with you on. There is
>one still in running condition and there are a few books that cover
>it. I'd love to have a Lola GT, Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b), Ford
>GT40 Mk1 early, Ford GT40 Mk1 late, Ford GT40 MkII early, Ford GT 40
>Mk2 late, Ford J car, Ford GT40 Mk IV, The John Wyer variants of the
>GT40s, Chaparral 2D early, Chaparral 2D late, Chaparral 2F, Ferrari
>330 P4 both coupe and roadster. Just those kits alone in the same
>scale and same detail level would make me a very happy man. Now throw
>in all the USRRC/Can-Am cars from about 1964 on and I'd be in heaven.
>Finally add all the 1960s F-1 cars and I could die a happy man.
>Broke, but happy!!
Norm,
If I am not mistaken EVERYTHING on you wish list is out there in
resin, plastic, or both in 1.24 and/or 1/25. Fisher, Fujimi, Tamiya,
IMC, Modelers, Monogram, etc. Cruise Motoi, HLJ, Phoenix, Fisher, AM,
Thunder Valley, Mini-Exotics, to name a few and you will be swimming
in choices. Trust me. Just got my first shipment of three that are
coming and my VISA card is melting!
"Broke, but happy!" Can't wait until that bill crosses my wife's
desk!!!!!
Bob Buxbaum
Chesapeake, Va.
snapon.bob@erols.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:41:02 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett) wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> Well if they are painted semi-gloss black, it doesn't show it in the
> photos I've seen in Lyons book.
>
> The M8B used a Hewland LG500 transaxle that was made of magnesium.
> Magnesium castings get a rather dark color as they age and oxidize.
>
> Referencing Peter Lyons book Can-Am, on page 62 there is an excellent
> shot of a mech working on an all aluminum Chevy big-block. I can't be
> sure, but it looks like the dry sump housing is also magnesium.
> Noting the tone of aluminum in a black and white photo, you can see on
> page 76 that the heads and what little of the block you can see are
> the same aluminum color and the bell housing and transaxle are much
> darker. The problem is in what semi-gloss black looks like in a b&w
> photo.
I checked my old R&Ts and they only show a two engines and those appear
to be unpainted. Pretty sure I've seen black ones too. Still looking.
The instructions *do say it varies and to check sources*. I only have
the works car kit so I don't know what the other instruction manuals say.
> On page 179, there is a very detailed shot of the back end of an M8F
> and you can tell that the brace that goes over the back of transaxle,
> which mounts the coilovers is a much darker color than the transaxle.
> It looks pretty close to the tone/color of the radiators and the
> center of the steering wheel, which are in fact black.
The F was a later customer car wasn't it? It not be relevant to a B or
a earlier works car.
Found one interesting bit. I tremembered Gurney drove a B at least
once, maybe twice, and assumed he was sitting in for one of the
regular drivers. At Michigan he was offered the team McLaren
back up car when he had problems with his. They ran all three and
finished 1-2-3. That was pretty generous of McLaren.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 8 Jan 1999 00:40:52 GMT
>>Norm,
>>These are ( or were) made by:
>
>>Chaparral 2F, Modelers & Me
>
>Is the Modeler's or your Chaparral 2F kit still available?
>Larry Litoborski
>Lito626@aol.com
>
The Modelers Chaparral is still available, I believe. I am working on one with
a chassis, windows, engine etc. The Modelers version is just a hunk of resin,
no windows, interior, chassis etc. Check hoppylink Japan if you want to get a
Modelers 2F at a good price.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: rocktman61@my-dejanews.com
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 07:46:29 GMT
Norm, I think your take on the accuracy issue is very correct. These were
"prototype" race cars. They were built and rebuilt not only between different
races, but sometimes between heats of the same race. Not even two team cars
were identicle. And Bruce most certainly did not sell complete "team" cars to
competitors. He sold lesser customer cars, and year old team chassis'
refitted with customer quality components. The "Bruce and Denny show" did not
dominate by selling their best stuff to the competition. And the moment the
customer got their hands on the car, they began modifying. To make a claim
that these models are not correct for a given year, is absurd. Unless a
modeler could come up with a COMPLETE set of photos for a given race, or
heat, it would be impossible to be completely accurate in the reproduction.
But, hopefully, that is not the goal in building these gems. The goal is to
enjoy yourself....
Tim
...go fast, or go home!
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 13:16:47 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> Tom none of the bolts or nuts on the transaxel are larger 1/2" accross the
> flats. Yhe realy unsightly thing is that on the rear cover the the studs and
> nuts run through ears that are way oversized. As far as being not visible,
> why not build a curbside?
Part of the engine sticks out of the top of the bodywork and some is
visible from the rear so a curbside more odd than some oversized bolt heads.
> I have give up complaining and have started to correct the problem:
> New head castings from revell L-88
> Cast new transaxel based on the MPC Eagle
> Remold the tires with proper tread
> Cast the roll bar and mirrors in pollished pewter
> Replace the radius arns with thinwall stainless
> Heim joints spark plugs and boots from RB Motiom
> New vacuformed windshield.
>
> Good luck with yours
How about building the customer car with the Ford engine? I have some photos...
Jim Hall raced a variation while revising the 2H to suit Surtees's demands.
Seen that one a few times too. It was, of course, white.
Did the customer cars have the magnesium floor and side pieces?
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: svanaken@aol.com (SVanaken)
Date: 8 Jan 1999 19:35:44 GMT
Tim sagely noted:
'These were
"prototype" race cars. They were built and rebuilt not only between different
races, but sometimes between heats of the same race.'
Along the same vein, Jim Hall was asked for one of the 'old' Chapparal 2E's for
a museum. He replied that he didn't have one as it had been continually
modified and eventually became the 2G. This car was subsequently destroyed in
Las Vegas, thus basically ending Jim's driving career.
Only goes to show how fluid prototype racing cars are and how difficult it is
to pin down references and specifications for these beasts.
Cheers,
---- Scott Van Aken IPMS Canada 5729 ----
---- Modeling Madness Webzine ----
---- http://www.geocities.com/~scottvanaken ----
---- Fly by Nite Productions ----
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 23:43:35 -0500
In article <36913CC4.7B73@corp.cirrus.com>, rbn@corp.cirrus.com wrote:
> All I can say about these McLarens is "Wow", as someone else put it. AM
> has brought into the Auto modeling arena, modelers who've never
> considered Cars as a subject just by their reputation in other subjects.
>
> Now it's time for us to get them to commit to other cars.
>
> My suggestions would be:
>
> Lotus 79 - Colin's dominating Groud Effects pioneer and Marios
> Championship F1 Car
> Any Lolas and or Chaparral cars
>
> Judging from the charateristics of the current AM car line, I'd think
> they are our only hope for these subjects cause the Japanese companies
> will not (except resin) and the US companies are too busy with Nascar
> and such. Anyway they're the only company that would do them the way
> we'd like them...lots of detail.
A Chaparral has been suggested many times for their next release.
Many thought the second car would be a Chaparral. A 2 or a new
2E (even though I have no problem with the IMC/Union 2E) would be
my choice.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:41:08 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
> Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
There is a photo of John Paul Jr. in a Lola T600 on my photo
page article "the Pan Shot".
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:48:13 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> Besides these there are too cars that were so far ahead of there time that the
> designs they spawned lasted decades. These are the original Lola coupe that
> John Mecom ran with the Grand Sport Corvettes in Nassau, and the Lola T600
> Chevy coupe that eliminated the Porches in IMSA, and never finished a
race in a
> position less than second place. I find it amazing that these have never been
> sone in 1/24 or 1/25.
Awesome cars from many respects. A 935K3 was about $250,000 in
1981. A Lola T600 was about $75,000 with overhauls running $5,000,
a fraction of the Porsches. They were phenomenal to watch, with
Brian Redman, Danny Ongais, and John Paul Jr. doing the most memorable
driving. In the rain they threw up enormous rooster tails. There was
a two part story in R&T profiling a race or two with Sam Posey joining
Brian Redman on the Cooke-Woods team.
The hot ticket was a Porsche 935 engine in a T600. On paper it
looked invincible, but it fizzeled when reality hit.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:16:56 -0500
thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett) wrote:
> ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
> > Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
>
> There is a photo of John Paul Jr. in a Lola T600 on my photo
> page article "the Pan Shot".
Then there were the Interscope T600s with the Falconer turbo V6s.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:43:18 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> Norm,
> These are ( or were) made by:
> Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b),- Mini Exotics
> Ford GT40 Mk1 early, - Chez Cast I believe
> Ford GT40 Mk1 late,- Aurora (reissue)
> Ford GT40 MkII early, - Fujimi
> Ford GT 40 Mk2 late, - Thunder Vally
> Ford J car, - Mini Exotics MPC,
I heard Mini Exotics no longer lists it as available but someone
told me they still had some on hand. It takes a MPC MKIV donor.
The Hardcastle and McCormick TV car kit used the same MKIV chassis
and should work too. The MPC MKIV was on the recent AMT Buyer's
Choice ballot so there is s lim chance it will be reissued.
> Ford GT40 Mk IV, - MPC,
IMC/Testors/Union did a MKIV too
> Ferrari 330 P4 both coupe ( Fugimi) and roadster. Creative Miniature
Associates
Heller/Union too, but not as nice.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: Brooks Moses <bmoses@stanford.edu>
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 14:20:55 -0800
D2Kos wrote:
>
> >I'll build it like my others. If I enjoy it and it looks nice, its
> >a success. I don't get stressed out over this stuff.
>
> Now here's a man with the right attitude. Model to please yourself, and not
> the "other experts".
What seems to be missing slightly is noting that Keith is also following
exactly that attitude too. Just that he has _very_ high standards.
Personally, I applaud him for sharing what he notices, so that others
with
similarly high standards can correct the errors as well. And note that
he has never said that "you need to correct these to have a good model,"
only that "you need to correct these to have a 100% accurate model."
- Brooks
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 06:57:02 GMT
Keith,
Sorry for the delayed reply. I've been a bit tied up with a project..
Your list is fairly accurate. The GT40 Mk1 early is Aurora or IMC. I
have the Aurora kit and it can be made into a decent 1965 Daytona or
Sebring car with a lot of work. I just picked up an IMC GT40 Mk1
(early) and both Revell Mk2 cars. That gives me three 1966 Le Mans
cars, one 1966 Daytona car, and one mis-matched IMC Mk2 (that I got
for $5 and the car came in a baggie with other parts. That will give
me a total of 7 GT 40s.
I'm not ready to put out all that money for the Mini-Exotics Lolas but
they sure look nice. I've been watching e-bay to see if any of the
models I'm looking for come up. I passed on several 330-P4s and was
really going to bid hard for a Chaparral 2A but I have a hard time
paying $96 for an AMT kit of anything!
Oh, well, I'll just keep at it. Thanks for all the great information.
Norm
On 7 Jan 1999 02:30:04 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>>Keith,
>>
>>Eric Broadley's Lola GT I know about and agree with you on. There is one
>still in running condition and there are a few books that cover
>>it. I'd love to have a Lola GT,
>
>Norm,
>These are ( or were) made by:
>Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b),- Mini Exotics
>Ford GT40 Mk1 early, - Chez Cast I believe
>Ford GT40 Mk1 late,- Aurora (reissue)
>Ford GT40 MkII early, - Fujimi
>Ford GT 40 Mk2 late, - Thunder Vally
>Ford J car, - Mini Exotics MPC,
>Ford GT40 Mk IV, - MPC,
>The John Wyer variants of the GT40s, *Mirage) Mini Exotic, K-Models
>Chaparral 2D early, Monogram (reissue)
>Chaparral 2D late, Modelers
>Chaparral 2F, Modelers & Me
>Ferrari 330 P4 both coupe ( Fugimi) and roadster. Creative Miniature Associates
>> Just those kits alone in the same
>>scale and same detail level would make me a very happy man. Now throw
>>in all the USRRC/Can-Am cars from about 1964 on and I'd be in heaven.
>>Finally add all the 1960s F-1 cars and I could die a happy man.
>>Broke, but happy!!
>
>Get happy
>>Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
>
>>Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
>
>The only reference I have about the T600 was a Chevy Power book. This car was
>the first to use a tunnel underbody in an envelop body.
>
>I could snail mail you a photocopy.
>
>Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:00:08 GMT
Bob,
Thanks to all the great folks here, I have a good chance of being a
very happy man.
Norm
On Thu, 07 Jan 1999 03:04:30 GMT, snapon.bob@erols.com (Bob Buxbaum)
wrote:
>On Wed, 06 Jan 1999 06:41:42 GMT, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm
>Cabana) wrote:
>
>>Keith,
>>
>>Eric Broadley's Lola GT I know about and agree with you on. There is
>>one still in running condition and there are a few books that cover
>>it. I'd love to have a Lola GT, Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b), Ford
>>GT40 Mk1 early, Ford GT40 Mk1 late, Ford GT40 MkII early, Ford GT 40
>>Mk2 late, Ford J car, Ford GT40 Mk IV, The John Wyer variants of the
>>GT40s, Chaparral 2D early, Chaparral 2D late, Chaparral 2F, Ferrari
>>330 P4 both coupe and roadster. Just those kits alone in the same
>>scale and same detail level would make me a very happy man. Now throw
>>in all the USRRC/Can-Am cars from about 1964 on and I'd be in heaven.
>>Finally add all the 1960s F-1 cars and I could die a happy man.
>>Broke, but happy!!
>
>
>Norm,
>
>If I am not mistaken EVERYTHING on you wish list is out there in
>resin, plastic, or both in 1.24 and/or 1/25. Fisher, Fujimi, Tamiya,
>IMC, Modelers, Monogram, etc. Cruise Motoi, HLJ, Phoenix, Fisher, AM,
>Thunder Valley, Mini-Exotics, to name a few and you will be swimming
>in choices. Trust me. Just got my first shipment of three that are
>coming and my VISA card is melting!
>
>"Broke, but happy!" Can't wait until that bill crosses my wife's
>desk!!!!!
>Bob Buxbaum
>Chesapeake, Va.
>snapon.bob@erols.com
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 07:05:41 GMT
On Thu, 07 Jan 1999 10:41:02 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
Tom,
As you are finding out, just like I, accuracy is a difficult thing to
attain with this hobby. The M8F photo I referenced was of a works
McLaren. The engine trans combination was identical as far as I could
determine. Gurney drove a M6 and and M8D. If I read the book
correctly, Gurney was the first driver chosen when Bruce was killed.
He was a very respected and feared driver. Jim Clark said that Dan
Gurney was the only driver that he ever worried about beating him.
Norm
>I checked my old R&Ts and they only show a two engines and those appear
>to be unpainted. Pretty sure I've seen black ones too. Still looking.
>The instructions *do say it varies and to check sources*. I only have
>the works car kit so I don't know what the other instruction manuals say.
>
>> On page 179, there is a very detailed shot of the back end of an M8F
>> and you can tell that the brace that goes over the back of transaxle,
>> which mounts the coilovers is a much darker color than the transaxle.
>> It looks pretty close to the tone/color of the radiators and the
>> center of the steering wheel, which are in fact black.
>
>The F was a later customer car wasn't it? It not be relevant to a B or
>a earlier works car.
>
>Found one interesting bit. I tremembered Gurney drove a B at least
>once, maybe twice, and assumed he was sitting in for one of the
>regular drivers. At Michigan he was offered the team McLaren
>back up car when he had problems with his. They ran all three and
>finished 1-2-3. That was pretty generous of McLaren.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 11:24:13 -0500
thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett) wrote:
> kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>
> > Norm,
> > These are ( or were) made by:
> > Lola T70 Coupe (1, 3, and 3b),- Mini Exotics
> > Ford GT40 Mk1 early, - Chez Cast I believe
> > Ford GT40 Mk1 late,- Aurora (reissue)
> > Ford GT40 MkII early, - Fujimi
> > Ford GT 40 Mk2 late, - Thunder Vally
> > Ford J car, - Mini Exotics MPC,
>
> I heard Mini Exotics no longer lists it as available but someone
> told me they still had some on hand. It takes a MPC MKIV donor.
> The Hardcastle and McCormick TV car kit used the same MKIV chassis
> and should work too. The MPC MKIV was on the recent AMT Buyer's
> Choice ballot so there is s lim chance it will be reissued.
I forgot to mention, both IMC and MPC did J cars, each with different bodywork.
Ludvigsen's book shows an amazing number of J car bodywork configurations
considering it never raced. I may be wrong, but I don't think the IMC
was reissued by anyone.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 13 Jan 1999 00:19:36 GMT
>I forgot to mention, both IMC and MPC did J cars, each with different
>bodywork.
>Ludvigsen's book shows an amazing number of J car bodywork configurations
>considering it never raced. I may be wrong, but I don't think the IMC
>was reissued by anyone.
>Tom
Tom you are right the IMC J was never reissued. I sold one of mine and traded
for an MPC and found out why the other guy wanted to part with it. The rear
body shap is far better on the IMC than the MPC. I am building the MPC anyway
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 03:19:20 GMT
Tim,
Apologies for the late reply. I've been pretty tied up with a project
I'm working on and couldn't spare the time.
Enjoying myself building these is truly what it is all about.
However, our definitions of "enjoyment" just might differ. But, that
is what makes this so great. My only real beef will be with folks who
think others are doing something wrong when they don't do things
exactly the same way they do them. Some folks like to research like
hell and really enjoy it, and others do virtually no research at all
and build the model as suggested by the manufacturer.
As long as they don't start lobbing streams of envectives at each
other, it's fine by me. Speaking of which, I'm looking at a picture
of Jim Halls Chaparral 2H at Laguna Seca. It has the most ridiculous
wing grafted onto the body that I've ever seen. If I tried to build
this the way it is shown in the picture, without showing reference
material, I would expect to get laughed at for building a fantasy toy.
Darn thing looks like it was build out of sheet styrene.
Regards.
Norm
On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 07:46:29 GMT, rocktman61@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>But, hopefully, that is not the goal in building these gems. The goal is to
>enjoy yourself....
>
>Tim
>
>...go fast, or go home!
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:22:41 GMT
Tom,
If AM were to keep it in the same time frame as the McLarens, they
would have to model the 2H and/or 2J. In 1971, Hall pulled out of
Can-Am competition in a dispute with FIA.
I personally would love them to do a 2C with all the louvers.
Hairiest dang car I've ever seen! A 2E/G would be nice as well, but
isn't AM's charter to model the subjects that are unique? The GS
certainly hasn't been over modeled nor have the SBD and Yak-1's (Those
are aircraft, in case you didn't know the designations. considering
how much an AMT 2A just went for on e-bay, I hope like heck the do
that model! By the way, just thought I'd pass on that a brand new,
still in the box, 1960s vintage Chaparral 2E slot car just sold last
week on e-bay for $1,500.00! That is one thousand, five hundred
dollars!
Norm
On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 23:43:35 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>A Chaparral has been suggested many times for their next release.
>Many thought the second car would be a Chaparral. A 2 or a new
>2E (even though I have no problem with the IMC/Union 2E) would be
>my choice.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:22:46 GMT
Tom,
Now I know what cars you mean. Also understand why I didn't recognize
the model of Lola. I was living in Japan when these were being raced
and I was not following racing of any type at the time. Interesting
shape!
Norm
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 18:41:08 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
>> Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
>
>There is a photo of John Paul Jr. in a Lola T600 on my photo
>page article "the Pan Shot".
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:22:47 GMT
Tom,
As my earlier message in this thread will tell you, I haven't got a
clue about these cars.
Norm
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 22:16:56 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett) wrote:
>
>> ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>>
>> > Unfortunately I can't remember what the Lola T600 Chevy looked like.
>> > Do you know of any reference stuff online about this car?
>>
>> There is a photo of John Paul Jr. in a Lola T600 on my photo
>> page article "the Pan Shot".
>
>Then there were the Interscope T600s with the Falconer turbo V6s.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 04:29:36 GMT
Tom,
Another group of cars that should be modeled, although who might be
doing these I don't know, is the Ferrari 333SP, Riley & Scott Fords,
and the Kudzu from WSC and the 8 Liter Panoz GTR-1 from FIA GT. The
one car I hope NEVER gets modeled is the Marcos from FIA GT-2. I
think one of the resin folks is doing the 333SP but I'd love to see it
in detailed plastic.
Norm
On Fri, 08 Jan 1999 23:43:35 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>A Chaparral has been suggested many times for their next release.
>Many thought the second car would be a Chaparral. A 2 or a new
>2E (even though I have no problem with the IMC/Union 2E) would be
>my choice.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:59:53 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> >I forgot to mention, both IMC and MPC did J cars, each with different
> >bodywork.
> >Ludvigsen's book shows an amazing number of J car bodywork configurations
> >considering it never raced. I may be wrong, but I don't think the IMC
> >was reissued by anyone.
>
> >Tom
>
> Tom you are right the IMC J was never reissued. I sold one of mine and traded
> for an MPC and found out why the other guy wanted to part with it. The rear
> body shap is far better on the IMC than the MPC. I am building the MPC anyway
Most the photos are of the Le Mans time trials car but there were several
versions. Get The Fastest Fords by Karl Ludvigsen (I may have a more complete
title on my reference page) from interlibrary loan. There are dozens of
drawings
and photos of the J car. Been a long time but I'm pretty sure both the IMC and
MPC configurations are shown. I have the MPC and a friend has the IMC. I think
one is as accurate and as inaccurate as the other, although they do represent
different versions.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:18:34 GMT
Tom,
Just thought I'd drop you a note to let you know that AM did it pretty
much correct with regards to the windscreens. Prior to 1970 it was
perfectly legal to flatten the windscreen over the passenger seat
area. The most extensive display of this was Chris Amon's Ferrari
where the windscreen on the passenger side was a virtual tonneau cover
made of lexan. In 1970 the rules were changed to mandate that the
windscreen be symmetrical and allow enough room for the passenger to
sit upright. Interesting what you can find out if you look past the
pictures.
Norm
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:59:13 -0500
svanaken@aol.com (SVanaken) wrote:
> Tim sagely noted:
>
> 'These were
> "prototype" race cars. They were built and rebuilt not only between different
> races, but sometimes between heats of the same race.'
>
> Along the same vein, Jim Hall was asked for one of the 'old' Chapparal
2E's for
> a museum. He replied that he didn't have one as it had been continually
> modified and eventually became the 2G. This car was subsequently destroyed in
> Las Vegas, thus basically ending Jim's driving career.
Hall has a 2E sitting in his personal museum which is not open to the
public. Photos of all of his restored cars (2, 2E, 2F, 2H, 2J and indycar) have
appeared in AutoWeek and the Falconer Chaparral book. He says he still has the
wreckage of the G that ended his career but has no plans to restore it. I think
he has only exhibited his restored cars twice- at Monterey Historics during the
Chevy year and this past year at Goodwood Festival of Speed. I'd sure like to
see them!
The historys of the individual chaparral cars is interesting. Thankfully
he built enough of them that he was able to update and backdate enough
chassis to come up with a fairly complete set for his collection. He still
sounds suspicious of questions about them and has in the past denied still
having certain cars that later showed up. He doesn't get the credit he
deserves.
> Only goes to show how fluid prototype racing cars are and how difficult it is
> to pin down references and specifications for these beasts.
Yep. When the university shows their solar racer most people are appaled
at how rough it is. They have to explain that although it is immaculately
constructed of alloys and composite materials, it is often modified
and repaired daily. They are a tool for a specific job and not a show car.
I have long suspected that the vast majority of cars on the vintage
circuit are in far better condition that they ever were when new.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:21:40 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Tom,
>
> As my earlier message in this thread will tell you, I haven't got a
> clue about these cars.
Brian Redman convinced Eric Broadly to build the T600 for the new GTP
class. He drove it ten times in 1981. He scored no poles but
won five times and finished second five times. Pretty straightforward
aluminum monocoque but with huge ground effects tunnels in the back.
His team, Cooke-Woods Racing, commisioned Garretson Enterprises to
install a 935 twin turbo engine in one for LeMans but they arrived to
find an unsorted car that fell far short of what was needed. Garretson
was a former WEC champ and until this incident his shop was a
top preparer of racing Porsches. Bruce Levin later fielded a similar
car but was a non factor. Guy Edwards and perhaps others raced
a Chevy-Lola T600 in europe.
Ted Field (interscope) bought two for himself and Danny Ongais to race.
John Paul Sr. bought one as did Chris Cord (Budweiser sponsorship). My
most vivid racing experience was the first year they opened part of the
Road America back straight to spectators. I stood on the cliff above and
watched Ongais go by for perhaps ten laps with the nose of his T600 tucked
up UNDER the wing of a GRID, inches from the gearbox, flat out at probably
180 mph.
For some reason they were mothballed for a year or so but Paul and Field
brought their's back and both had success with them. By then Field had a
V-6 turbo fitted to one while the other retained the Chevy V8.
I may be wrong, but I think there was a direct connection between the
Lola T600 and the Hendrick Corvette GTP.
The pic I mentioned is on my webpage. URL should be in the sig.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:39:09 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Tom,
>
> If AM were to keep it in the same time frame as the McLarens, they
> would have to model the 2H and/or 2J. In 1971, Hall pulled out of
> Can-Am competition in a dispute with FIA.
I'm not picky. I'll take any from the general era. Any from the
original series would do.
> I personally would love them to do a 2C with all the louvers.
I'd agree. Definitly 'Merican with Chevy V-8 and still memorable
to this day. When I was a kid everyone wanted Chaparral and Cheeta
slot cars.
A Cheeta would be cool, but it only won one race.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:46:45 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Another group of cars that should be modeled, although who might be
> doing these I don't know, is the Ferrari 333SP, Riley & Scott Fords,
> and the Kudzu from WSC and the 8 Liter Panoz GTR-1 from FIA GT. The
> one car I hope NEVER gets modeled is the Marcos from FIA GT-2. I
> think one of the resin folks is doing the 333SP but I'd love to see it
> in detailed plastic.
The R&S is done in 1/24 resin too. Check out www.gpma.org for
a comparison of the 333SP and R&S 1/24 resin kits. And sign
up for the gpma listserve at: http://www.eGroups.com/list/gpma/
if you haven't already. Lots of sporty car model types hanging
out there. Kevin stewart deserves a big thanks for his contribution
of bringing together internet sportscar/GT modelers.
I think a Viper GTS-R would be great. It is a crowd favorite all
over the world yet is american enough and brutal enough to appeal
to the general US market, and is a series and Le Mans class winner.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: jcsdlj@aol.com (JCSDLJ)
Date: 13 Jan 1999 23:13:26 GMT
Hall does not have a 2E restored it is a 2D coupe that he has. The 2E became
the 2G which was the car that he destroyed
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:07:05 -0500
jcsdlj@aol.com (JCSDLJ) wrote:
> Hall does not have a 2E restored it is a 2D coupe that he has. The 2E became
> the 2G which was the car that he destroyed
Correct, the G was built from the E, but there were TWO Es. One G
was wrecked. The other was restored as an E because Hall preferred the
lighter weight, smaller engine, cleaner lines, and nimblier handling
of the E. One of the Es was originally all new, the other was built
on a 2C tub. Hall still owns the wrecked G and could theoretically
build another E or a G.
His collection has been featured in magazines and there are at least
two books with a large section devoted to it. He currently has
a 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2H, 2J, and 2K (the John Barnard designed Indycar).
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:08:21 -0500
kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
> >I may be wrong, but I think there was a direct connection between the
> >Lola T600 and the Hendrick Corvette GTP.
> >
>
> Right againTom , the Corvette was a LOLA 710, the next genertion of the
T-600.
> I would like to see that one as a kit also.
A few years ago there was a toy car out that was said to be accurate
enough for a good scratchbuilding project. Never saw it though. Did see
a RC version.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 14 Jan 1999 01:34:29 GMT
>I may be wrong, but I think there was a direct connection between the
>Lola T600 and the Hendrick Corvette GTP.
>
Right againTom , the Corvette was a LOLA 710, the next genertion of the T-600.
I would like to see that one as a kit also.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 14 Jan 1999 01:37:05 GMT
>Tom,
>
>Just thought I'd drop you a note to let you know that AM did it pretty
>much correct with regards to the windscreens. Prior to 1970 it was
>perfectly legal to flatten the windscreen over the passenger seat
>area. The most extensive display of this was Chris Amon's Ferrari
>where the windscreen on the passenger side was a virtual tonneau cover
>made of lexan. In 1970 the rules were changed to mandate that the
>windscreen be symmetrical and allow enough room for the passenger to
>sit upright. Interesting what you can find out if you look past the
>pictures.
>
>Norm
Norm,
The problem is, that the team cars are from '69.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:48 -0500
thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett) wrote:
> jcsdlj@aol.com (JCSDLJ) wrote:
>
> > Hall does not have a 2E restored it is a 2D coupe that he has. The 2E became
> > the 2G which was the car that he destroyed
>
> Correct, the G was built from the E, but there were TWO Es. One G
> was wrecked. The other was restored as an E because Hall preferred the
> lighter weight, smaller engine, cleaner lines, and nimblier handling
> of the E. One of the Es was originally all new, the other was built
> on a 2C tub. Hall still owns the wrecked G and could theoretically
> build another E or a G.
> His collection has been featured in magazines and there are at least
> two books with a large section devoted to it. He currently has
> a 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F, 2H, 2J, and 2K (the John Barnard designed Indycar).
Whoops. He doesn't have a 2C, its a 2. There was only one 2C
and it became a 2E, then a 2G. The article I have doesn't say
if the existing 2E was the one built from the 2C chassis or the
one built on a new chassis.
All three of the original three "glass" chassis exist, one as
the 2, one as the 2D, and one as the 2F. He has another set of
unassembled FRP monocoque panels...
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley)
Date: 14 Jan 1999 01:40:56 GMT
>Hall does not have a 2E restored it is a 2D coupe that he has. The 2E became
>the 2G which was the car that he destroyed
While looking through the book "Chapparal" I must be seeing things then
because it sure looks like a partially restored 2E.
Keith
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:00:19 GMT
Tom,
Thanks for the URLs. I'll check them out and I'll check out the resin
kits as well.
Thanks
Norm
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:46:45 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Another group of cars that should be modeled, although who might be
>> doing these I don't know, is the Ferrari 333SP, Riley & Scott Fords,
>> and the Kudzu from WSC and the 8 Liter Panoz GTR-1 from FIA GT. The
>> one car I hope NEVER gets modeled is the Marcos from FIA GT-2. I
>> think one of the resin folks is doing the 333SP but I'd love to see it
>> in detailed plastic.
>
>The R&S is done in 1/24 resin too. Check out www.gpma.org for
>a comparison of the 333SP and R&S 1/24 resin kits. And sign
>up for the gpma listserve at: http://www.eGroups.com/list/gpma/
>if you haven't already. Lots of sporty car model types hanging
>out there. Kevin stewart deserves a big thanks for his contribution
>of bringing together internet sportscar/GT modelers.
>
>I think a Viper GTS-R would be great. It is a crowd favorite all
>over the world yet is american enough and brutal enough to appeal
>to the general US market, and is a series and Le Mans class winner.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:06:52 GMT
Tom,
Did you know that you can now build serious 1:1 kits of the Corvette
GS and Cheetah? Street legal too!
I raced a Cheetah slot for a while but it never seemed to be a popular
car. I raced a Chaparral 2D and 2E but never the 2A/C. That was my
friends speciality. I have fond memories of the Cooper-Monaco Ford
and raced that for 2 years. Ah, the memories!
Norm
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:39:09 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>I'd agree. Definitly 'Merican with Chevy V-8 and still memorable
>to this day. When I was a kid everyone wanted Chaparral and Cheeta
>slot cars.
>
>A Cheeta would be cool, but it only won one race.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:15:39 GMT
Keith,
Yes, I know and there are two different windscreens. One is for the
1969 team cars and has an asymmetrical layout and the windscreen for
the 70 and 71 is symmetrical. If you like I can send you an image
showing both items side by side and you can see the difference. I am
NOT saying that the screen for the 69 cars is totally accurate but it
is different.
The point I was trying to get across is that the rules change for 1970
changed the screens and we shouldn't expect them to be modeled the
same as the 69 team cars.
Norm
On 14 Jan 1999 01:37:05 GMT, kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>>Tom,
>>
>>Just thought I'd drop you a note to let you know that AM did it pretty
>>much correct with regards to the windscreens. Prior to 1970 it was
>>perfectly legal to flatten the windscreen over the passenger seat
>>area. The most extensive display of this was Chris Amon's Ferrari
>>where the windscreen on the passenger side was a virtual tonneau cover
>>made of lexan. In 1970 the rules were changed to mandate that the
>>windscreen be symmetrical and allow enough room for the passenger to
>>sit upright. Interesting what you can find out if you look past the
>>pictures.
>>
>>Norm
>
>Norm,
>
>The problem is, that the team cars are from '69.
>
>Keith
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:32:29 GMT
Tom,
Glad to see you catch this. The car, is Hap Sharps uprated 2A to 2C
body work and specs. The Hap Sharp car is 6in wider than the real 2C
and has a 1in longer wheelbase The big visual difference between the
two cars is the 2A/C will normally be seen with a molded in duct that
starts on the right side of the radiator duct and extends back into
the windscreen in front of the driver. Looking at the restored car in
Falconers book, the car is restored with earlier rear bodywork and
doesn't include the flipper spoiler. It is really interesting to note
that Hap Sharps cars was raced not only as a 2A, but as a 2D and 2F.
Versitile cars, these Chaparrals. Now, if we can get someone to make
a nice detailed 2A, we could then get some else to make modification
kits to make the rest, except for the 2H and 2J.
Norm
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:48 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>Whoops. He doesn't have a 2C, its a 2. There was only one 2C
>and it became a 2E, then a 2G. The article I have doesn't say
>if the existing 2E was the one built from the 2C chassis or the
>one built on a new chassis.
>
>All three of the original three "glass" chassis exist, one as
>the 2, one as the 2D, and one as the 2F. He has another set of
>unassembled FRP monocoque panels...
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:45:48 GMT
Now I made the mistake. The Hap Sharp car has late 2A body work not a
mix of 2a and 2C.
Norm
On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:32:29 GMT, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm
Cabana) wrote:
>Tom,
>
>Glad to see you catch this. The car, is Hap Sharps uprated 2A to 2C
>body work and specs. The Hap Sharp car is 6in wider than the real 2C
>and has a 1in longer wheelbase The big visual difference between the
>two cars is the 2A/C will normally be seen with a molded in duct that
>starts on the right side of the radiator duct and extends back into
>the windscreen in front of the driver. Looking at the restored car in
>Falconers book, the car is restored with earlier rear bodywork and
>doesn't include the flipper spoiler. It is really interesting to note
>that Hap Sharps cars was raced not only as a 2A, but as a 2D and 2F.
>Versitile cars, these Chaparrals. Now, if we can get someone to make
>a nice detailed 2A, we could then get some else to make modification
>kits to make the rest, except for the 2H and 2J.
>
>Norm
>
>On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:37:48 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
>wrote:
>
>>Whoops. He doesn't have a 2C, its a 2. There was only one 2C
>>and it became a 2E, then a 2G. The article I have doesn't say
>>if the existing 2E was the one built from the 2C chassis or the
>>one built on a new chassis.
>>
>>All three of the original three "glass" chassis exist, one as
>>the 2, one as the 2D, and one as the 2F. He has another set of
>>unassembled FRP monocoque panels...
>>
>>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:50:02 -0500
ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
> Tom,
>
> Glad to see you catch this. The car, is Hap Sharps uprated 2A to 2C
> body work and specs. The Hap Sharp car is 6in wider than the real 2C
> and has a 1in longer wheelbase The big visual difference between the
> two cars is the 2A/C will normally be seen with a molded in duct that
> starts on the right side of the radiator duct and extends back into
> the windscreen in front of the driver. Looking at the restored car in
> Falconers book, the car is restored with earlier rear bodywork and
> doesn't include the flipper spoiler. It is really interesting to note
> that Hap Sharps cars was raced not only as a 2A, but as a 2D and 2F.
> Versitile cars, these Chaparrals. Now, if we can get someone to make
> a nice detailed 2A, we could then get some else to make modification
> kits to make the rest, except for the 2H and 2J.
There were a ton of Chaparral 2 slot bodies in the sixties. SAE
had an article a while back on a guy who scratchbuilt a chassis
to go along with one. Pretty impressive. I've only seen one recently
and a friend snapped it up. The hobby shop I worked at as a kid
had a pile of old slot stuff i wish I'd payed attention to.
Mini Exotic does the 2H and 2J in resin. MRRN had plans to scratchbuild
a 2J many years ago. MQ said he was working on a greatest hits edition
with reprints and updates of many articles. Perhaps he'll include
that one.
A reissue of the IMC 2E would be great. Last issued by Union of Japan.
I dug mine out earlier this evening and looked it over. A bit
crude but still, what a car!Its Jim Hall's favorite. Mine would be
it or the original 2.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 06:00:51 GMT
Tom,
Since you and Keith seem to be the fount of knowledge lately, do
either of you have the url for MCW Automotive Finishes? I assume MCW
stands for Model Car World? I want to buy a jar of thier paint for
the McLaren team cars, item 2070. The only address for them on GPMA
was for snail mail. Not even a phone number.
Thanks
Norm
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:46:45 -0500, thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
wrote:
>ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
>> Tom,
>>
>> Another group of cars that should be modeled, although who might be
>> doing these I don't know, is the Ferrari 333SP, Riley & Scott Fords,
>> and the Kudzu from WSC and the 8 Liter Panoz GTR-1 from FIA GT. The
>> one car I hope NEVER gets modeled is the Marcos from FIA GT-2. I
>> think one of the resin folks is doing the 333SP but I'd love to see it
>> in detailed plastic.
>
>The R&S is done in 1/24 resin too. Check out www.gpma.org for
>a comparison of the 333SP and R&S 1/24 resin kits. And sign
>up for the gpma listserve at: http://www.eGroups.com/list/gpma/
>if you haven't already. Lots of sporty car model types hanging
>out there. Kevin stewart deserves a big thanks for his contribution
>of bringing together internet sportscar/GT modelers.
>
>I think a Viper GTS-R would be great. It is a crowd favorite all
>over the world yet is american enough and brutal enough to appeal
>to the general US market, and is a series and Le Mans class winner.
>
>Tom
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: "P.or C. Davis" <cpdavis@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:32:21 -0700
Just have to get in on this one. The model Corvette GTP based on the Lola
was produced by
Lanard Toys LTD in 1989. I have one sitting before me even now. Don't know
about the accuracy
of its dimentions but the shape and proportion see right on. It really is
quite nice.
I always pay attention to Chaparral / Jim Hall posts mainly because he used
to lap me on the track
with great regualarity as he was driving John Edgar's 5.7 Maserati and I was
in an E production TR-3a.
Somewhat of a speed differential. He always waved when he lapped you.
Obviously, this was before
the Chaparral era began ( 1961).
Cliff Davis
IPMS #3687
Littleton,
Colorado
Tom Hiett wrote:
> kaehley@aol.com (Kaehley) wrote:
>
> > >I may be wrong, but I think there was a direct connection between the
> > >Lola T600 and the Hendrick Corvette GTP.
> > >
> >
> > Right againTom , the Corvette was a LOLA 710, the next genertion of the
> T-600.
> > I would like to see that one as a kit also.
>
> A few years ago there was a toy car out that was said to be accurate
> enough for a good scratchbuilding project. Never saw it though. Did see
> a RC version.
>
> Tom
>
> --
> Tom Hiett
> Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
> Check out my vintage race pics at:
> http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com (Michael Stucker)
Date: 14 Jan 1999 18:18:07 GMT
In article <369d8748.13067547@news.direcpc.com>, ncabana@mail.direcpc.com
says...
>Since you and Keith seem to be the fount of knowledge lately, do
>either of you have the url for MCW Automotive Finishes? I assume MCW
>stands for Model Car World? I want to buy a jar of thier paint for
>the McLaren team cars, item 2070. The only address for them on GPMA
>was for snail mail. Not even a phone number.
That's the way they does business, mail only. Which is a bummer if you
haven't ordered from them in a while and don't know if there has been a price
increase. Can't remember, does MCW even take credit cards?
--
Michael Stucker | Anadrill Schlumberger, Sugar Land, Texas
stucker@$sugar-land.spc.slb.com | Definately not Anadrill's opinion.
Remove "$" from email address | Copyright Michael J. Stucker 1998
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
See a history of Can-Am racing at web-hou.iapc.net/~smh/articles.html#auto
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eagles may soar, but weasels don`t get sucked into jet engines.
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: thiett@iastate.edu (Tom Hiett)
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 19:29:00 -0500
"Shaun Crist" <cristd@nospamwf.quik.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> HLJ has a resin Team Oreca Viper GTS-R listed as a future production.
> Another high dollar kit though at 14800 yen.
> Tom Hiett <thiett@iastate.edu> wrote in article
> > I think a Viper GTS-R would be great. It is a crowd favorite all
> > over the world yet is american enough and brutal enough to appeal
> > to the general US market, and is a series and Le Mans class winner.
Scale Designs has one too. But approx $100 resin kits aren't something
I buy a lot of.
Tom
--
Tom Hiett
Graphic Designer, Iowa State University
Check out my vintage race pics at:
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: "Shaun Crist" <cristd@nospamwf.quik.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 00:57:02 GMT
Tom,
HLJ has a resin Team Oreca Viper GTS-R listed as a future production.
Another high dollar kit though at 14800 yen.
Shaun Crist
Tom Hiett <thiett@iastate.edu> wrote in article
<thiett-1301991246450001@hiett.itc.iastate.edu>...
> ncabana@mail.direcpc.com (Norm Cabana) wrote:
>
> > Tom,
> >
> > Another group of cars that should be modeled, although who might be
> > doing these I don't know, is the Ferrari 333SP, Riley & Scott Fords,
> > and the Kudzu from WSC and the 8 Liter Panoz GTR-1 from FIA GT. The
> > one car I hope NEVER gets modeled is the Marcos from FIA GT-2. I
> > think one of the resin folks is doing the 333SP but I'd love to see it
> > in detailed plastic.
>
> The R&S is done in 1/24 resin too. Check out www.gpma.org for
> a comparison of the 333SP and R&S 1/24 resin kits. And sign
> up for the gpma listserve at: http://www.eGroups.com/list/gpma/
> if you haven't already. Lots of sporty car model types hanging
> out there. Kevin stewart deserves a big thanks for his contribution
> of bringing together internet sportscar/GT modelers.
>
> I think a Viper GTS-R would be great. It is a crowd favorite all
> over the world yet is american enough and brutal enough to appeal
> to the general US market, and is a series and Le Mans class winner.
>
> Tom
>
> --
> Tom Hiett e-mail: thiett@iastate.edu
> Designer-Illustrator-Modeler Iowa State University
> Check out my vintage race pics at:
> www.public.iastate.edu/~thiett
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.models.scale
Subject: Re: Accurate Minatures Can-Am
From: "P.or C. Davis" <cpdavis@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 11:00:41 -0700
Sharp's car was 6 inches wider because Hap was 6 inches wider than Jim!!
;>)
&nbs